Symposium: Religion in the
Right Perspective – “Concept of God in
Hinduism, Christianity and Islam”
(Mumbai, India, 30th June 1994)

SYMPOSIUM – PART II

 

RELIGION IN THE RIGHT PERSPECTIVE

CONCEPT OF GOD IN HINDUISM, CHRISTIANITY, AND ISLAM – PART II.

 

Dr. Mohammed Naik : - Now we start the 3rd session of the symposium, in which we have the audience and press participation session. This would be the clarification of the question answer session but as one of these brothers has told me that they wanted a briefing of Dr. Zakir. He is from out of Calicut. The other speakers we know them. So I’ll … just … in short … I would just give a briefing.

Dr. Zakir Naik is a medical doctor by professional training and has turned around to make Dawah the proper presentation, understanding, clarification and appreciation of Islam as well as removing misconception about Islam amongst Muslims as well as non Muslims, his primary mission in life. With the holy Qur’an and the Islamic way of life as his perfect  base, fully reinforced by his dynamic data and analysis on the complete compatibility of Islam, with logic reason and science, as you have seen he speaks with renewed righteousness and infallibility of Islamic teaching. Recently he has been on a lecture tour from 17th September to 24th October to U.S.A, U.K, and CANADA, visiting many cities like TORONTO, MONTREAL, HALIFAX, HAMILTON, NEW YORK, OTTAWA, ATLANTA, CHICAGO, INDIANAPOLIS, HUOSTIN, LOS ANGELES, BIRMINGHAM, LEISTOR, LONDON and many other cities.

On returning back, he has been to Madras, for a 3 day 8 lecture tour. Returning back to Bombay he had a major lecture on “Qur’an and Modern Science – Conflict conciliation in which we had a long question answer session in which the press and the audience could cross examine him. As well as leading scientists of Bombay could cross examine him on the topic. After that he had lecture tour from 19th to 24th of December he was in Malaysia for another six, seven lectures and four national television programs. On returning back to Bombay as 25th .. er .. with one and a half day rest he was back in Trichur, amongst your people of Kerala. A first visit and he has appreciated that  lost, enjoyed it a lot and today also it has been an interesting session being amongst you all before he moves to Cochin tomorrow and back to Bombay day after.

He is on the move either … whether he’s in Bombay or out of Bombay and the appreciation he gets for his studies as a student of Islam as well as comparative religion from all the people who come to hear him, makes him strive harder to carry on more and more. Thank you very much for all your support. We start the 3rd session, the question answer session. We have our 3 learned speakers here, Swami Golokanada of Shri Rama Krishna matt in the centre. Next to me respected father Geo Payyapilly of the direct .. who is the director of the Naya Jyoti’s renewal centre and or my extreme left, Dr Zakir Naik, president, Islamic Research Foundation.

I would just another the rules to be observed during the question and answer session so that we get more .. er .. for every one present here in the less time available.

The first rule is press will be given first preference to ask questions. They are counted as responsible people who report and inform the masses at large. So they will be given first chance. If they have to ask question, they may kindly identify themselves when they line up that we are the press and there the volunteers will give them first preference. Questions  asked should be on the topic “Religion in the right perspective or concept of God in religion only . Question not relevant to the topic will not be entertained, please state which of the three speakers you are putting your question forward to. As Swami Saheb wants to leave as Swami Saheb want to leave earlier, we would request all those who would like to put questions to him should come up first and then we will allow questions for the other two speakers. He has a commitment to go some where so we request you to kindly ask questions to him first. Kindly state your questions briefing and to the point in English. In rare exception, if your really don’t know English, we may allow in   Malayalam to be translated by Brother M.M. Akbar. This is a question and answer time and not a lecture or a debate time. Kindly note that. Only one question at a time may be asked. For your second question, you will have to go back at the row again and await your second chance. I understand, 3 mics have been provided for question answer session, two in front of me, one on the left, one on the right for our brothers down here and one mic in the balcony for the ladies. Please stand in queue at one of the mics if you wish to put forward a question to the speaker and speak into the mic only when the mic is handed to your and your turn is due. We’ll start the first question in the ladies section.

Then we come or .. on my right in clockwise fashion to the brother here, then on my left to the other brother again to the ladies and so on we’ll circulate the questions.

In the interest of having a less time wasting and more educating and interesting question and answer session our decision to allow or disallow irrelevant questions and questions not connected to the topic will be final. 

In the interest of illiciting a proper response and a clear answer from the speakers, kindly state your name and profession before putting forward your question. May we start with the first question from the ladies section please. First question to the Swami please.

Questions to the Swami may be put forward first later on we will allow for the other two speakers. Thank you.

Q.1. Respected Swamiji … a question to Swamiji

I’m Abdullah. lecture … college

Malayalam or English 

Swamiji :- As you please

Let me ask a question … Malayalam O.K.

Dr. Mohammed Naik :- Those brother who can speak in English, we’ll prefer in English because both the audience would know and even the other speakers would know you know, and if you really don’t know, then we’ll ask brother Akbar to translate after the question is put forward. Why you are wasting double time.

Q. thanks sir

….er …. About the punarjanm, rebirth, rebirth and the life hereafter ….. according to Hindu mythology can you explain ?

Swamiji :-   yes the Hinduism accepts  the theory of rebirth. The life hereafter. Hinduism accepts it.

The …. The   common understanding about the .. the rebirth, the next birth is … the good and bad things that is done during in our life. If they are almost equal, you will be born in your next birth almost like this as a human being with the same status and things like that. But if you good actions, noble actions, noble thoughts, beneficial thought and activities, if that prevail you will have a quite air. You will have a …. Even in human birth in a place where there are more opportunities more facilities for you to grove, evolve spiritually. But are the other hand, if you,… if the bad things are alone more that person rebirth is … er… is described as say in the sub-human level … they .. he will go to the sub human level. This is the basic idea of the Hinduism. We accept rebirth.

Dr. Mohammed Naik :- Next question no no .. any question from the ladies side ?

Q: My question is concerned with the your … the 3 philosophies in Hinduism. According to the Vishista Veda, you said that .. er .. god… you can Compau God to fire and man to spark. So they are both qualitatively the same. How can God and man be qualitatively the same and man make mistakes whily god does not have any mistake? He is perfect and he is super power. 

Swamiji : - When we analyse the total existence and the status of the world, the individual and the supreme being, we have a … this philosophy excepts that there is a divine spark carried … carried in the heart of every human being. But that perfection is there. That full warmth and glow … the fire is in every … every human being. But that ……. Is not seen because of the bad actions of the individual. But if he ……… then by noble actions, the glow and warmth of the fire inside will be more and more manifest and will become one with the lords glow … warmth.

Dr. Mohammed Naik :- Next … Next question.

Swamiji : - yes.

Q:- My name is C.N. Abdullah. A business man.

Sir, in the Bahavishya Puran, there is a Shloka.

……… Sanskrit ………..

I wanted to know what it means and in which relative. 

Swamiji :- I should   be frank about it. I have not … I have not read that .. er … purana therefore I am not able to .. er.. say my opinion about it.

……… Malayalam ………

dr. Mohammed Naik :- Next question.

Q:- I am Dr. Zamiullah Mohammed,… er… I want  to ask Swamiji because you asked … every person has a right to choose their own Eshwa deva. So your giving freedom in choosing our own God. So even now … in this place we are not given freedom individually to choose their own prime ministers. So how can we decide like that on a crucial thing as religion ?

Swamiji :- Oh! That is easy. It is difficult to choose your prime minister because various factors contribute to it. As far as the spiritual evolution is concerned, the decision is yours. You have the freedom. You can choose you can evolve. You can one … become one …. You can become one with the supreme in your prayers in the depth of your meditation.

Dr. Mohammed Naik :- Er.. now .. er…. Would we request as this is a symposium, if the question is addressed to one of the speakers and the other two speakers would like to comment, they should let me know. If it’s the same.

Swamiji :- that is to say I … I …. I …

Dr. Mohammed Naik :-No if it’s the same question addressed to 2,3.

Swamiji :- I came first because, if anyone has to ask tell me something specifically, I could answer and then could leave the place. I am fir away from Quilon. You know, it is getting late.

Dr. Mohammed Naik :- No, we’ll allow the swami, what I said was if the father of Dr. Zakir would like to comment as any thing which is a common grounds to ….to ..two points of views, they could comment on it and what I would request the crowd to kindly maintain your cool. This is a symposium. A scholarly understanding between experts and .. er… er… I would prefer you maintain the decorum.

The next question from the brother please.

Swamiji :- unless, …. Er… unless we . in a session like this in a ……. Assembly like this, when we have met in the name of God, we must be able to maintain that coolness and then, we must be fair not to criticize any view. And asserting that my view is the only right and truth and the others are false. That attitude is not what we want. We have assembled here in the name of the almighty. Almighty, that love and loving concern and cooperation that ……….. that spirit must … we must prevail in this … in this ……. Assembly and then more question I will answer and then with your kind permission, I will leave.

Q: - Swamiji, I am Abdul Nasser. I am an architect by profession, I would like to know, what is the meaning of Moksha and what is the purpose of meditation?

Swamiji : - Purpose of meditation is to gain Moksha. Moksha is the state of one’s own perfect state of being where he enjoys full freedom of his soul. he is one with the supreme being. He enjoys a ……… that is the state of Moksha and meditation is a means, a method, a path to teach that state of perfection.

I think…….

Q:- I request … one question.

Swamiji :- All right.

Dr. Mohammed Naik :- any ladies have question, I think they should …. We’ll allow a lady and then a gents

Q: - My question is that … er …. In Hinduism, the concept of creation that Brahma is the creator and there is different categories of people. That is Brahmins, Shudra and vai….. vai what is …… Vaishanava and other people born from the different organs of Brahma. So is it whether … I’m wondering whether … er … this is a true or what I have learnt is wrong. I just like to know what it is.

Swamiji :- I think, things have …. Have not been made very clear to you. The concept of creation in Hinduism is one thing and what you refer to is something else. That there are two different things. As far as Hindus are concerned, we do not accept the fact that the world was created in just the other day and it will and one day or a fixed day.

No! what we accept is that the creation is a perfectual process in the nature. It evolves. It is like waves in the ocean. It is there. It will go back again to prahlab. Then again birth come up. Then again it will go on. Its an endless process. The creation, preservation and instruction, that is an endless process in the nature. In the totality of nature. That is the concept of creation in Hinduism. The other thing is. The difference of different caste… different … in the human beings … states … that … states that … they …. They are all very insignificant …. Details about the religious belief of … er … the Hindus. And if you have good friends you sit with them. They’ll clarify. Very in significant. They are not at all important ……. Very insignificant … very ….very relative.

Q:- Respected Swamiji, can you please allow some more questions!

Swamiji :- er… er… pardon?

Q: - Some more questions.

Swamiji :- Pardon?

Q:- Some more questions. Only two are there.

Swamiji:- Two more questions/ OH! Welcome. All right.

Q:- My name is Mohammed Rafiq. My question ….my question is that the Vedas are the primary sources of Hindu philosophy and my question is what is the Vedic basis.

Swamiji :- what is the…..

Q:- What is the Vedic basis for the principle of adveda?

Swamiji:- Vedic basis?

Q:- what is the 

Swamiji: - …. Malayalam….

Q:- What is the Vedic basis. The basis in Vedas …. Malayalam…

If you quote something from Vedas propounding adveda and also punarjanma.

Swamiji :- ……Malayalam ….

…… Malayalam….

Swamiji :- yes, yes! The Vedas proclaim. The Upanishad proclaim. This…. These ideas very much.

Q:- Swamiji, caste system is basic principle of Hinduism I understood. Chandogya Upanishad said that …. Sanskrit…

What about your opinion in the cast system.

Swamiji:- I told you in the beginning, that’s not caste system that is … that is explained there. What I told you in the beginning is ….. in our lives. If predominary is for good, noble activities, noble thoughts, you will have a .. your punarjanma in a higher region. If a the predominance is towards bad … tendencies are bad towards bad things, then you come down to the sub human level. Even upto the rock so that is the concept. If its is equal, you will get a similar life. If it is good, you ascend. So that is the … that’s all … that’s all the simple thing there. Not that it is accepted. I think … I think….

Dr. Mohammed Naik :- That would be the … that was the last question now we’ll allow only …. Father… father Joe, would you like to comment on anything before we give…. Er… give…er Swamiji a leave?

Any comments? Any comments on the point?

Just a symposium, we have here a better understanding of the session .. er … Dr. Zakir would…. Er…

Swamiji has been very kind. He has .. he is a very learned personality and I would not think that we would have many amongst us who would understand. He is from the Rama Krishna mission. I know they are very learned people. We have met many from such missions, and the speak with lot of sense and straight forwardness. Which we ourselves may not have so much knowledge, if he is presenting a point, we should appreciate that and the other speakers should be given due respect … er.. thank you, … er… Dr. Zakir would like to have some comments.

Dr. Zakir Naik :- I’m very thankful to Swamiji, the learned speaker, for spending so much time and answering so many questions. I would love to comment on each and every answer. Since I an a student of comparative religion, but since time is short, I will just choose 3 of the questions just to give my comments.

The just question posed was regarding incarnation and Swamiji rightly said that Hinduism, they believe that of a person has done equal good and bad, he is reborn as a human being, if he does more, he reaches a higher stage if he does more evil than good, he is born as a subhuman level rightly, Swamiji rightly described the Hindu philosophy, which even I have read, and he rightly said that the Hindu philosophy says that if you do more evil, then you are born sub human being. May be like a dog, like cockroach or like a snake, that’s the philosophy, I agree with him. My question that I would like to clarify is that, today, there is more evil in the world. Evil is on the increase in the world. So I am asking as a student of science and a student of logic, that it evil is increasing, the population of human being should decrease. But in the world we come to know, that the population of human being are increasing. So how do you… how do you reconciliates. Since I am a student of comparative religion, its my pleasure to learn more about Hinduism. I would like, how do you reconciliate the theory of Hinduism of human beings should decrease. But we find that the population of human beings are increasing that’s my comment. If you want to you rebuttal, or I would like to speak on the second question also.

Swamiji:- No! one by one.

Dr. Mohammed Naik :- Silence please. We thank you. You have been a very patient and an enthusiastic audience you have been appreciative. Please don’t get restless. 

Swamiji:- I think that is not a very important question. The living beings in this … or the face of this earth are so immense. So immense … so some of them must have meditated to become human beings and they are coming so we cannot …. Er .. am … ma….clarify and say specifically this… this is the, this is the… these are all unimportant details I think I request Dr. Naik not to give much emphasis on the

Dr. Mohammed Naik:-

Any other point

 

Dr. Zakir:-

I’m just, I want a classification, since …er… Swamiji said that he has not read the Bhavisya Purana since I am a student of comparison religion, I have road the Bhavisya Purana so I would like to comment on the brother, posed a question that is the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, mentioned in the Bhavisya Purana.  And since I would like to learn from the Swamiji if I don’t know and of swami doesn’t know, I would like to throw some light.

 

The Bhavishya Purana says in Parva thru, Khand thru, adyatya thru, slikas 5 to 8

I’m giving the translation that there will be a Malecha.  A Malecha in Sanskrit means a foreigner.  Speaking a foreign language.  There will come a Malecha, a spiritual teacher, who will come along with his companions.  His name shall be Muhammad.  And Raja Bhoj, after giving this Mahadev Arab a bath in the panch ghar.  He will give his presence of braverence and speak to him with aspect and say.  I say obeisance to you, O! pride of humankind, you have created a great form.   You have collected great force to kill the devil.  If you analyse this Bhavishya Purana, Bhavishya Purana is one of the Puranas as Swamiji rightly said, there are 18 Puranas which was compiled by Maharishi Vyas into 18 voluminous parts.  The Bhavishya purana this is Malecha, a foreigner speaking a foreign language, a spiritual teacher whose name shall be Muhammad will come and Raja Bhoj after giving this Mahadev Arab, the Sanskrit word is Maruf sthall meaning place of a sandy track or a desert.  This man which the bhavishya purana speaks about the future, is the coming of a man from the sandy desert whose name shall be Muhammad and Raja Bhoj will say that this person is the pride of Humankind as the holy Qur’an rightly says in Surah Al-Ambiya chapter 21 verse no.107  …….Arabic…….

 

That we have send the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him as the mercy to whole humankind, as a mercy to all the cultures.  As a mercy to all the worlds.  This is the first prophecy.  These are several prophesies in Bhavishya purana, I just like to throw light on one more verse is that Bhavishya Purana purva thru, Khand thru, Adyatya thru, slokas 10 to 27, It says that the malechas had spoiled the land of the Arabs.   Arya dhar is not to be found there.   There was a devil who had been earlier killed by God Almighty, but now he has been sent by more powerful enemies.   These enemies will be guided to the true path and the devil will be corrected by a man known as Muhammad.   And further says that a shroud man in the guise of Pichachas in the angetu disposition will tell Raja Bhoj, that you need not go to the foolish land of the Pichachas for I will purify you by my kindness wherever you are.  Referring when the Musalmaans come to India, they will be purified.  The prophecy continues that Araya dharm will prevail.   The religion of truth the deen-ul-haq will prevail and it says that I have been sent by Ishwar Parmatma.  My followers will be a man who is circumcised.   Who will not have a tail on his head.   That’s a ‘shendi’  who will grow a beard who will create a revolution.  Who will give the call for prayer, that is, the Azaan.  Who will eat all lawful things but will not have the flesh of swine.  And the Qur’an says 

in no less than 4 different places, in Surah Al-Baqarah chapter 2 verse no. 173, in Surah Maidah chapter no. 5 verse no. 3, in Surah Anam chapter no. 6 verse 145 and Surah Nahl chapter no. 16 verse 115

…Arabic…

that forbidden for you for food are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine and any food on which any name besides Allah has been invoked. So Qur’an prohibits the eating of flesh of swine and Bhawishya Purana says the same. These followers of Ishwar Parmatma will not have swine. They will not be purified by holy shrubs but be purified by warfare and they will correct the irreligious people. These people will be called Musalmaans. This is in brief what the Bhawishya Purana speaks about the coming of the beloved prophet Muhammed, peace be upon him. That was just to give my information about Bhawishya Purana and as the sister asked.

Swamiji: My reaction to is … will you permit me to say?

Dr. Zakir Naik: Sure most welcome. No I thought that you didn’t read the Bhawishya Puranas.

Swamiji: As far as the Hindus are concerned, I told you in the beginning that the supreme book, authority for us is Vedas. And even among the Vedas, Upanishad, that supreme authority, the itihasas or other books in Hinduism is to interpret, to make the upanishadic ideas more clear to the common people according to their level of intellectual understanding. So Upanishad comes only second in authority. The prime authority is the Vedas, the Upanishad. I accept the Upanishad as supreme and therefore I have.. I do not give much importance to what the Upanishad speaks. Because I have.. I have.. I have.. I have direct.. I have access to the Upanishads and therefore, it doesn’t mean that I disrespect. No! I respect every …er… purana but I give the first place, the most important place to the Upanishads, to the Vedas. That is my reaction to you.

Dr. Zakir Naik: Thank you very much Swamiji and I do agree with you that the Hindus first believe in most authentic, are the Vedas, then Upanishad then Puranas I do agree with him Swamiji does not believe in the Puranas or does not give a respect, I don’t mind. But this is just the quotation of the Qur’an.

Swamiji: I…I…I…I…I don’t … I didn’t say I don’t respect, I do respect but the... but the…in importance..

Dr. Zakir Naik: But you have not read it. I do agree with you Swamiji. Thank you very much. Just a comment on choosing your own God in life, The Qur’an gives you permission to choose your own God in life. The Islamic principle, and I quoted part of that verse In Surah Al-Baqara chapter 2 verse no. 256 says

…Arabic…

There is no compulsion in religion, truth stands out clear from error. If you hold the hand of Allah subhanawataala, you have held the most strong hand that never leaves you. And if you believe in Allah subhanawataala, and ________ the evil, verse no. 257 says that He will take you from darkness to light. But if you believe in the devil, Qur’an gives you permission, you have a choice to choose any one. But if you choose the devil, he will take you from light to darkness. Qur’an gives you the option to choose whichever god you want. But the true God is Allah Subhanawataala which I described in the beginning part of my talk.

Wa aakimudawana anil hamdulillahi Rabbil Aalameen.

Dr. Mohammed Naik:…er… Thank you Swamiji very much. On behalf of the Salafi Learning and Research Centre, Calicut, I thank you all very much for your esteemed presence amongst us an sharing your knowledge and I give him a standing ovation. I would request the brothers to kindly give Swamiji a standing ovation for his presence and sharing so much information. And we grant him leave for his other commitments. Thank you Swamiji, insha Allah we hope to keep in touch with you. We carry on with the question and answer session. Now we would request the speakers… I would request one volunteer at least on the mic so its regulated properly. One mic here on my right, one on my left and one on the top. And whenever a person wants to ask question I would request the volunteer to kindly raise your hand. Sometimes there’s no one standing I don’t know whether the question is going to be asked or not. One mic is there. I can see the hand. When someone is ready for a question I would like the hands to be raised. Now we start from the top. One question there, one on my right side left and in a circular order. Kindly see when your order comes, raise your hands. Can we have the next question. Kindly address the speaker and put your question briefly and to the point. May we have the next question please. The next question from the ladies section.

Question: Salaam Alaykum. My name is ______ I’m quoting this question to father. Father you have said that Jesus is divine, and the saint and Dr. Zakir Naik has said that such a statement is not present anywhere in the bible. So, how do… how do you prove this. How do you prove Zakir Naik wrong and make him a Christian.

Father Geo: This is a affirmatively question. How to interpret the bible. We have with the bible written within a hundred years of span. First we have the oratraditions. That oratraditions were written down later on. So from B.C. 1000 to A.D. 100 these Bible text were formulated and written. In the early Christianity, or the very after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, The Apostle, the disciples of Christ, proclaimed, they believed in Jesus Christ and the beginning they proclaimed that Jesus Christ is the son of God. He is divine He is the lord. He is the _____. The son of man. So different titles were given. And later on, the gospel writers or the evangelists, those who proclaimed the teachings of Christ, started proclaiming. Then we have …er… the additions, Mathew, Luke, Mark and John. Wrote from Gospels. Then we have the different apostle and evangelist describes of Christ wrote other books called letters to the different Christian groups of that time. So first of all we had the proclamation. The charisma of Jesus Christ who is lord. Who is the expected Messiah, the savior. Then they started writing the text, the teaching of Jesus Christ. So from the teaching of Jesus Christ. Take example from the book of John alone, The book of John was written, the last gospel between A.D. hundre… 950 to 100. In the book of John gives more in-depth formulation which is be… can be called theological formulation of the divinity of Christ as well as the humanity of Christ. In the text of gospel, there are …er… the I am sayings. I am the life and the resurrection. I am the light of the world. There are seven I am sayings. I am in the Bible. Both old testament and the new testament signifies God. When Moses asked name of Allah in the name of God. God said Yaonwe. Yaonwe means I am Huam. I am So in the gospel of John, Jesus asserts that I am means God is the life. The bread of life. I am the door, I am the resurrection, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. So from the teachings of Christ, directly the sayings – I am, equals to the divinity of Christ. And the miracles which Jesus Christ worked because of his divinity. So Christ be divine. He one… brought miracles which we have already read in the gospels. And besides, the people of Israel were expecting a Messiah. So if you go through all the different books of old testament. The Taura, we will be able to find out. The people of Israel were expecting a messiah and all messiah will be redeemer, who will be send by God. And in the gospel again we see in the book of John chapter three sixteen, God send his only son to redeem the mankind and out of his dove and mercy so we have from the saying of Jesus Christ, from the miracle of Jesus Christ, from the early and belief of the Christians we affirm and formulate as a dogma that Jesus Christ is son of God. He is divine as he is human. So he is perfect divine and perfect human being. This is _____ to the answer to the question.

Dr. Mohammed Naik: I just have a brief announcement Br. Abdul Bare and Br. Abdul Salaam Kannoor are to report at the gate. Their wives are waiting for them. Abdul Bari and Abdul Salaam …er… Salaam Kannoor. If you can kindly go to the gate. May we have the next question from the brother on the right.

Dr. Zakir Naik: Please excuse me chairperson, since the Father… I would like to make my comment on that. Because if its true I have to accept Christianity. Father has given two quotations from the Bible and he rightly said the gospel does say in several places Jesus Christ himself said that ‘I am’. He didn’t give the reference number. Its gospel of John chapter no. 14 verse no. 6 says for I am the light the truth and the way. No man commeth upto the Father but be me. That’s the quotation father was referring to and several other quotations I am.

Father Geo: I cannot say I said many quotations Jesus Christ said I am and my father is one. In John… gospel of John chapter 17 verse 20.

Dr. Zakir Naik: It is not chapter 17 verse 20, it is chapter 10 verse 30. You check it up. The Bible is here, I and my father all one is not in gospel of John chapter 17. Its in gospel of John chapter no. 10 verse 30. You can check it up father. Yes you can refer, I’m sure of it.

Father Goe: Chapter 17

Dr. Zakir Naik: Check it up. I’ll just give my comments. Father said. No clapping please. Father please read gospel of John chapter 10 verse no. 30 I and my father are one is in gospel of John chapter 10 verse no. 30.

Father Geo: I’m quoting chapter 17 verse 20 and 21 Neither pray for these alone but for them also which shall believe on me through their word that they all may be one as thou father art in me and I in thee that they also may be one in us that the world may believe that than haste sent me.

Dr. Zakir Naik: Father you said I and my father are one. Now open chapter 10 verse no. 30 and read that, father, please. Open chapter 10 and verse no. 30. You said that Jesus Christ said I and my father are one. Verbatim that statement is given in Gospel of John chapter 10 verse 30. Can you open it father, and read it to the people.

Father Geo: I just read what I said chapter 17.

Dr. Zakir Naik: Father the thing is being recorded, what you said, Jesus Christ said I and my father are one. That statement is not there in gospel of John chapter 17 verse 23. Now open John chapter 10 verse no. 30, that statement will be there. You read so may words.

Father Geo: We are quoting different text and we can quote so many text from the.

Dr. Zakir Naik: I’m sorry father, you made the statement I and my father are one. If you open chapter 10 verse no. 30 and read it to the public, they will understand.

Father Geo: Chapter?

Dr. Zakir Naik: Gospel of John chapter 10 verse 30

Father Geo: John, chapter 10 verse

Dr. Zakir Naik: thirty!

Father Geo: three zero. I and my Father are one.

Dr. Zakir Naik: That’s. That’s the statement you had made. Its been video recorded. You said that Jesus Christ peace be upon him, said I and my Father are one. This is a verbatim statement. You had made earlier. But that is found in gospel of John chapter 10 verse 30. Now to explain this I will quote both the verses sister for a better understanding and as you said that people can interpret Bible in different way, I will give you an interpretation which… which is logical, if you quote gospel of John chapter 10 verse 30, I and my father are one, its just out of context. If you read the context and link the verse which father said about gospel of John chapter 17 you’ll get the answer. For context father, you will have to go to verse no. 23. And I will quote it from my memory. If I am quoting wrong, you can correct me father. Gospel of John chapter 10 verse no. 23 says that Jesus entered the porch in the temple of Solomon. Verse no. 24 says that the Jews surrounded him, and they ask him that if thou art the Christ, tell us plainly. Verse no. 25 says – I am quoting father, if I am wrong you can correct me – verse no. 25 says I’ve told you but you believeth not, because you are not my sheep. The work that I do in my father’s name bear witness of me. Verse no. 27 – My sheep follow me because they hear me. Next verse – I give them eternal life. No one can pluck them out of my fathers hand. Verse no. 29 – My father who giveth them to me. No man can pluck them out of my fathers hand. My father is greater than all. Verse no. 30 says I and my father are one. Now if you read the context, the earlier verses says that no man pluck these people – the followers of Jesus Christ peace be upon him, from his hand. No man can pluck them out of the Fathers hand that means God’s hand. God Almighty. If you read the context it means the plucking in purpose. Jesus peace be upon him, and God Almighty are same. Suppose I say my father is a doctor and he is a medical doctor, I’ am a doctor. In purpose I and my father are one. But that does not mean one in unity. If you mean it means one in unity, then I have to go back to you verse which you quoted rightly. John chapter 17 verse no. 21,22,23 which says that if you agree that one means God Almighty and Jesus Christ claim divinity, if it means that, you will have to agree, according to John chapter 17 verse 21 to 23 Jesus Christ said that I am in my father, my father is in me, I am in you, he’s telling the apostles, that means if you say in one means God Almighty is same as Jesus Christ, then according to John chapter 17 verse 21 to 23 you will have to believe even the apostles are god almighty. So do you believe in 12 plus Jesus Christ plus god almighty to be 14 gods. So if you say I and my one means Jesus Christ claimed divinity, Jesus Christ also said I am in my father, my father is in me, I’m in you. Read the verse you quoted. John chapter 17 verse 21 to 23. It says that Jesus Christ is in the apostle. Does it mean that Jesus Christ as God Almighty is in the apostles. Are the apostles also God Almighty, No. It means one in purpose. It means one in purpose. That means Jesus Christ had this… delivered the same message of God Almighty and the apostles of Jesus Christ also delivered the same message which Jesus Christ peace be upon him preached. And further if you read, John chapter 10 verse 31, it says that the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus Christ. I’m reading father, verse no. 32 says that for which of my good works do you stone me. The Jews say then, we do not stone you for good works, we stone you because you being a man, you blaspheme saying that you are God. So then Jesus Christ peace be upon him verse no. 34, 35 says that it is said in your law and scriptures that ye are God. And if you say to a person God to whom the word of God has come, the law is not broken. And if you read the psalms. The 22nd psalm verse no. 6 says that ye are Gods whoever are led by the spirit of God, they are called as gods. The spirit is not broken so Jesus Christ said that if you call to a person to whom the word of God has come, then the law is not broken. He never claim divinity. Read the context. You quoted one more verse, that Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, said that he is son of God. You didn’t give the reference, I’ll give the reference, gospel of John chapter 3 verse no. 16 sates for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever shall believeth in him shall not die but have everlasting life. Now the father said that Bible mentions that Jesus Christ peace be upon him son of God. If you refer Bible also says that Adam is son of God, Abraham is son of God, David is son of God. Bible has got son of God, by the tons. Anyone who is led by the spirit of God is a son of God. That’s what the Bible says. It means if you are a good person, following the rules and regulation of God Almighty, then you are son of God. We are children of God. But the Christians says no, he is not only a son of God, he is the begotten son of God. And they quote John chapter 3 verse no. 16 as father said, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever shall believeth in him shall not die but have everlasting life. Now this Bible which I am quoting from the King James Version and its also present in the duoy version which the Catholics believe. And the father rightly said the Catholics believe in 73 books and the Protestants, they have thrown out 7 books from the old testament saying its apocrypha. The ____ of the people don’t know the meaning of apocrypha. It means doubtful. Apocrypha. They have thrown out 7 books from the old testament saying its doubtful. The Bible which the King James Version and the other duoy version, they go back to the source about 300 to 500 years after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus Christ peace be upon him. According to the revised standard version, the revised standard version goes back 200 years after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Closes to the source, more authentic, more authentic is the source. And according to revised standard version, which has been revised by 32 scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 different co-operating denominations. This is the revised standard version. This is the revised standard version, revised by 32 scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 co-operating denominations, if you open gospel of John chapter 3 Verse No. 16, the word begotten is not there. Because its an interpolation. It’s a concoction. It’s a fabrication. Who says that, no the Muslims. The 32 scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 co-operating denominations, even the RSV of the catholic editions, the word begotten is not there. Why? It is an interpolation. It’s a concoction. And the Qur’an rightly says

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They say Allah has begotten a son. It is indeed a most monstrous thing to say

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As though the sky is ready to burst open

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And the earth to split asunder

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And the mountain to fall down in utter ruin.

If any one says that Allah has begotten a son, it’s the biggest abuse you can give. As though the sky is ready to burst the earth to split asunder and the mountain to fall down in utter ruin.

May be these 32 scholars of the highest eminence, they read the verse of the Holy Qur’an Surah Mariam chapter 19, verse no. 88 and 92, and they threw out the begotten from the Bible. Its no longer there in the revised standard version. This is the revised standard version, you can verify if you want to father. So yet there is no statement in the whole Bible where Jesus Christ peace be upon him, himself said, that he is God or ‘worship me’.

Father Geo: In the book of John chapter 1 verse 18 says, no name has seen God at anytime, the only begotten son which is in the bosom of the father he has deprived him. So we are taking the context, the background, of the believers. So the revealed doctrines or the revealed truth are accepted by believers. These believers proclaim Jesus Christ as son of God and the gospel of John chapter 1 verse 1 to 18 speaks about all these things in the beginning was the world and the word was with God.

 

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Father Geo: And the word was God and the day was in the same in the beginning with God. All things were made by him and with him by the way. There were so many titles. Not only son of God. The latter the weild there were so many titles. I am now coming again to the question of Religion. There is faith. There is belief. There is creed. Which we proclaim. This is the formalated by the believers of early Christianity which has been translated into the generations and the custodians of the Bible are the believing community and community has emerged and the developed and became community of Christians because they had belief in Jesus Christ was the son of God who is divine and the reaction and assumption of Jesus Christ. And the very fact of Christianity is based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Unlike Jesus Christ has risen, there won’t be Christian religion. So we formerly belief that JesusChrist who was born in Palestine in Bethelem who lived in Palestine who did miracles, spoke God’s words. Who died at the time of Pangis Pilot was buried and risen and is ascended to the father and he becomes the lord and god and _______ in the same gospel of John calls god after resurrection my god and my lord so not to tell quoting onward to text the whole of continuing the other letters of St. Paul, St. Peter and so on read the same thing. Letter of St. Paul to Phillipeans ____ 6 verses Chpt. 2 verse 6 to 11 speaks about the cannoughti Christ who emptied himself and came down to the world one quotation I’am quoting from Phillipines Chap. 2 verses 6 to 11. I quote As she have therefore received a Christ Jesus the lord so what in him. Root it and bit it up in him and establish in the face Chap 2 verses 6 to 11. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. Who being in the form of god. Did not robbery to be equal with god but made himself of more reputation and took upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men and being found in fashion as a man he humbled himself and became obedient under death even the death of the cross wherefore god has highly assaulted him and given him a name which is above every name that as the name of Jesus. Everybody should bow while things in heaven things on earth and things underneath and the very tons should confess that Jesus Christ is the lord to the glory of god the father.

Mohammed Naik: Thank you Father. I have asked the brother here Dr. Zakir to sit down because what I said we have got the basic idea of appreciation Father presented the Churches point of view. Dr. Zakir presented his study of the references he has got. I leave it up to the audience to decide. May we have the next question from the brothers side. Next question to Dr. Zakir from the brother on the left.

Question: I am Abdul Latif. My question is regarding the significance of God. What does this mean? Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. But Qur’an and Bible says that everything will be destroyed. Its contradictory. It’s against and the saftest noor. Noor means light. Other one Bible says light in the word. In that case what we are studying is wrong. Science is wrong. What happens whether Science or Religion is wrong?

Dr. Zakir Naik : Brother has asked the question for and answer if the chairperson gives me the time otherwise I would answer every question in detail but time dosen’t permit us.

Mohd. Naik: Answer this question.

Dr. Zakir Naik: Brother has asked this question that the law of Newton he say that nothing can be created and nothing can be destroyed that’s what they say. The conservation of energy which we do agree. Conservation of energy but you said dosen’t it contradict with science. See science has not reached so far. Science can not tell us everything. Science can not tell us everything. Science can not tell us everything. Initially there was something created. There has to be something. There has to be something then the situation arises that they are charged to different forms. First there was some thing who created that thing. You ask Newton who created that thing. You ask Newton who created that first thing. Do you mean to say that there was nothing first. There was something. There was something even according to the big bang theory. The creation of the universe as the Qur’an says in Surah Al-Amiya Chap. 21 verse no. 30 says 

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Do not the unbelievers see that they have not done the earths work together. And they closed the messenger. There was something. Afterwards the law of conservation of energy says nothing can be destroyed nothing can be created. It changes form. But that’s ultimate. Initially there was something and we say that this something that was created the creators was Allah (swt). Hope that answers the question.

Mohd. Naik : The next question from the ladies section please.

Question: Assalam-alaikum. The question is to Dr. Zakir. The question is title womans rights in Islam.

Mohd. Naik: Sister can we have questions on the topic of today. We have less time to cover up the topic of today. I don’t think we would allow question out of the topic. Kindly restrict yourself to the topic of today. Religion the right perspective.

Question: I would like to pose this question. I am Professor Nafisa Kadim. I came from Madras this morning. I would like to ask Father whether he can tell me if the new testament as we read and understand it today was written during the lifetime of Jesus.

Father Geo: Nothing was written at the time of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ proclaimed the good news and he gave the command go and teach good news to the whole world. Then the disciples of Jesus Christ there proclaimed this treaty of Jesus Christ in the beginning of Christianity say around A.D. 30 to 70. Later on those who heard the word of God receive message through inspiration of god, wrote down first he was Mark, Mathew, Luke and John. Time of Jesus Christ nothing was written down.

Mohd. Naik: Next question from the brothers side.

Question: Dr. I am V.T. Herman. Dr. Zakir may I ask the question. Do you agree with me if I say the religious are written by men. Religion is written by men.

Dr. Zakir Naik: Brother has asked the question that do I agree with him that religion is written by men. Most of them are not all. I agree with you. Yes most of them are not all. The Holy Qur’an is the last and final revelation of Allah (swt). It was revealed by Allah and I have given a talk. Is the Qur’an God’s word and I have proved to a Atheist, a hindu, a christian to a scientist that the Holy Qur’an is the revelation of God Almighty. It is not written by human beings. Today people can copy the Qur’an but originally it is revealed by Allah.

Question: Why should the religion differ?

Dr. Zakir Naik: Why should the religion differ? You have to ask those people who have written the Qur’an with their own hands. The Qur’an says in Surah Al-Bakra Chap 2 verse no. 79 it says 

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that woe to those who write the book with their own hands and then say this is from Allah. Woe to those for what their hands do write and woe to those for what they earn. So Qur’an says there are people who write with their own hands and then say this is from Allah (swt). Allah says woe to such people for what they write and woe to their hands and woe to what they earn. Hope this answers the question.

Mohd. Naik: Father wants to comment the honours. Dr. Zakir Naik.

Father Geo: Christians believe the definative and ultimate revelation was given through Jesus Christ and by the time of Jesus Christ the revelation was closed so we as Christians accept the teachings of Qur’an but for us we believe that Jesus the god has come to the world revealed, taught entirely which is the ultimate revelation. So we don’t want any other revelation.

Question: My Question is to Dr. Naik. What are the fundamentals logic in Islam. Is it the belief in fate, destiny. God has decided what is to happen in the years to come. Even after millions of years he knows what will come. If this is so why should a man do righteous deeds in this world. God has already decided your fate whether you do good or bad. Every word is already there inside it and in that case if you do not do good at all or if you do good.

Mohd. Naik: May I request you to put the question.

Question: The question is this. The fate has already been decided by God. In that case what is the fun in doing righteous things. This question is mainly asked by those who want to marry in Islam and also those who have genuine doubts in Islam.

Dr. Zakir Naik: I have understand the question brother. Brother has asked the question or destiny. Just before I give the answer, I like to say that different people say that their book is the word of god. Hindus say that their scriptures is the word of god. Christians say that their book is the word of god. Muslims say Qur’an is the word of god. So lets if you want to know which is the word of God. Put it to the final test. Which today is a world of science and technology if you apply scientific knowledge to all these scripture you will actually come to know which is the word of God which I have done in my video cassette. Is the Qur’an gods word. Regarding the question of brother that if God Almighty, Allah (swt) know whether a person is going to heaven or hell why does he lead this life of turmoil. If Allah knows destiny everything is written down why do we have to lead this life of turmoil. It’s a very good question. I don’t know if its in the topic or not. People misunderstand the meaning of destiny. The Qur’an rightly says that the moment a child is born. His fate is bound round his neck. Allah (swt) knows in advance what a person is going to do. Good deeds or bad deeds. Let me give you an eg. That suppose in a classrom therein a grown of students who sit for an examination. Before the examination comes the teacher thinks he has taught the student for year. He knows that this student is a very clever student and will come first in class. That student will come 2nd in class. That student will fail. Why? Because of experience. How 3when the examination comes the student actually comes out first that student gets a 2nd class and that student fails. Just because the teacher predicted in advance that the person is going to fail. Can he dream that the teacher had predicted so he failed. No the teacher had experience therefore the teacher could predict that he would fail. Similarly Allah (swt) has given a free will to everyone. But he has knowledge of the future whats going to happen, whats not going to happen, he does not intervene your free will. He gives you a free will for eg. If you come on a crossroad and there are 5 roads. Road 1, Road 2, Road 3, Road 4, Road 5. Allah gives you the choice to choose whichever road you want but Allah knows you will choose Road 2 and you actually choose Road 2. It is not because it is mentioned the destiny that you will choose Road 2. It is because Allah has ilme-gaib. He has knowledge of the furture in advance. He nows that you will be choosing Road B. Because he knows he has written down. It is not because Allah has written in the destiny it is the reason that you follows. If the vice-versa. If you go a little further you come to another 3 roads, A, B and C. You choose Road B. Allah knows in advance that at the next junction you will choose Road B. Because Allah knows in advance it is written down in destiny. Not because it is written that you do it. It is vice-versa. Allah has ilme-gaib. Allah aslo knows as the brother said whether the person is going to hell or heaven. He knows very well. So the question is why don’t you put the person the moment you are born Allah know you are a good person and puts you in Heaven. That person will commit murder, adultry, put him in hell. Why dosen’t Allah directly put the person in hell or heaven? The reason brother is because if Allah puts the person directly in heaven he will not object but if Allah puts that person in hell, he will ask Allah on the day of Judgement why did you put me in hell? Why did you put me in hell? Allah knows this person is going to go sir, but that person does not know, so if Allah puts him in hell directly he will question Allah (swt) on the day of judgement Why did you put me in Hell? He will question. The Qur’an says on the day of judgement no one can question Allah (swt) it is so crystal clear that a person who will be put in hell will agree that he has to go to hell. He will only ask for forgiveness. He cannot question So Allah cannot put a person directly in hell or heaven. So that you will get proof that what you are doing in good or bad. As Allah says in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Mulk Chap. 67 verse no. 2 we have made the life and deadth for the test hearafter. Allah knows very well whether the person is good or bad but you do not know. To undergo the test so that you will be satisfied with the result. The teacher cannot say without the examination I will fail you. The student will object to the teacher. May be I would have passed. Why did you fail me. In the same way so that no one can object Allah (swt) on the day of judgement. Allah lets the person undergo the test and wait for the result. He knows the result, you don’t know the result that’s the  he lets you to undergo this life in the world.

Mohd. Naik: And the next question from the ladies please.

Question: My question is to father. Dr. Zakir Naik had mentioned that Christianity believes those people who agree or acts upon the teachings of Jesus Christ. So does that mean the people before Jesus Christ who did not get the teachings of Jesus Christ are not christians or chiristianity is only pertaining to people after Christ.

Father Geo: The times christians comes from Christ then Christian believers in Christ so they not only accept the teachings of Jesus Christ but they accept and believe the person of Jesus Christ who is god. So those who believe that Jesus Christ is the divine person they become Christians. So the term is used to distinguish between other religions.

Mohd. Naik: The next question from the brother on the right please.

Question: Assalam-alaikum. I am Aziz Siddick. My question is to Dr. Naik. Sir while explaining the concept of God in Islam you had mentioned that God is unique 

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that is you cannot compare God to any human being or human attributes. But in the same Qur’an Allah says that God spoke to Moosa. So speech or talking is a human act. So can God take a human act.

Dr. Zakir Naik: Brother has asked the question that I said in my talk that Allah (swt) is unique and there are certain qualities of man if attributed to Allah (swt) he ceases to be Allah, so he asks the question that Allah (swt) in the Quran says he spoke to Moosa Alai-salam. So if you tell me that Subhana Talah has a mouth, like the human being, he has lips, he has teeth and then he spoke moving his lips then he is not God Almighty. Quran does not say that speaking. Allah speaks in many ways the speech of Allah cannot be compared to the speech of human beings. The moment you said God spoke with 2 lips, a tongue and teeth he is not God Almighty.

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There is nothing like him. Qur’an says he spoke. How he spoke we don’t know? Sure not like human beings. Hoped that answered the question.

Mohd. Naik: The next question from the brother on the left.

Question: My question is to Dr. Zakir Naik. Father Geo and Swami have given a secular view to religion. You have interpretted religion on the basis of Qur’an and that Qur’an cannot go wrong and it can go only wrong when someone has wrongly interpretted it. So I am bringig forward a consentive issue that is affecting the process of today that is regarding the process of Hijab in the Surah Al-Ahzab. Which has led to the division of Muslims face into two. So what we ultimately see here is that visible public here will sit here. There  is a very simple interpretation if you ellaborate you will find ____ diversions like Muslims in Afghanistan who are completely confined from institutions.

Dr. Zakir: Brother has asked the question that I have interpreted religion according to the Qur’an. I gave the definition of  ____ according to the Oxford Dictonary not according to the Qur’an and then I started my lecture. But I believe that Islam is the only way of life. Brother asked that how do I interpret the system of Hijab mentioned in the Qur’an. Brother didn’t give the verse no. He was referring to Surah Noor 24 verse no. 30 and 31. Verse no. 30 first speaks about the Hijab for male and verse no. 31 speaks about Hijab for female. Surah Noor chapter 24 verse no. 30 says: “Say to the man to lower his gaze and guard his modesty.” That means the moment he looks at any woman he should lower his gaze and guard his modesty, any thought that comes in his mind