(Duration – 2 hours and 10 minutes)
Dr. Mohammad Naik: Distinguish guests, brothers and sisters, As Salaamu Alaikum… May peace be on all of you. Welcome to today’s programme. I Dr. Mohammad Naik, I’m your host for today. We begin today’s programme with the Qiraat by Qari Rehan Ghalib.
Qari Rehan Ghalib: (Qirat) Man Qatala Nafsan Bi Gayri Nafsin Aw Fasaadil Fil Ardh Faka’annama Qatalannaasa Jami’a. Waman Ahyaaha Faka’annama Ahyannaasa Jami’a.
Dr. Mohammad Naik: The translation of the verse from the Glorious Qur’an, Surah Al Maidah, Chapter 5, Verse 32…
“If anyone kills a human being, unless it be for murder or for spreading corruption in the land it would be as if he has killed the whole of mankind. And if anyone saved any human being it would be as if he has saved the whole of mankind.”
We thank the many Muslim and Non Muslim senior police officers, advocates and intellectuals who have urged Dr. Zakir Naik to speak on this topic of terrorism and Muslims in a sensible manner.
We also thank Justice Hosbet Suresh to have consented to be our Chief Guest today. Our Chief Guest, Justice Hosbet Suresh is the former Judge of the Bombay High Court who retired in 1991.
A prominent human rights activist he personifies the right blend of simplicity and righteousness. He regularly writes articles in the law journals as well as leading magazines and newspapers of India. His recent book, “Fundamental Rights as Human rights” is remarkable. He has spoken at many international forums. He is well known for his report on the riots in Mumbai in 1992 – 93 entitled, “The Peoples Verdict”. As member of the citizens tribunal on the Gujarat carnage against Muslims his report “Crime against Humanity” released in November 2002 in Ahmedabad is notable and very widely acclaimed. His reports on excesses against Dalits in Mumbai, students in Kerela, Christians in Gujarat and others too are quite notable.
An apt Chief Guest to address our audience today… brothers and sisters… lets welcome Justice Hosbet Suresh.
Justice Hosbet Suresh: Friends… I think I should begin with Lord Derning… a great judge from England who’s no more… I’ll just say what he said once. Judges do not speak, as actors do to please. Judges do not speak as advocates do to persuade. Judges do not speak as historians do to relate the past. Judges speak to give judgments. I’m a retired judge, not a tired judge. I give no judgments but I think I speak and I believe in speaking. I speak against violation of human rights. I speak against wherever there is injustice, wherever there is violence, I speak against that. And I always expect the judges to come out and speak. If judges cannot speak against violation of human rights, voi… injustice… who else can speak?
It is the experience all over the world that every violence by the terrorist has only resulted in more violence by the state. It is sought of vicious circle and it can never bring about any lasting solution. In 1984 we had the certain Bomb blasts in Delhi and around Delhi. The Khalistani’s, it was the Khalistani……. movement… Khalistani movement was very … very active at that time. The Khalistani’s were terrorist at that time. So what we did… how to control the terrorist? We brought TADA law. TADA the most draconian law… TADA has been misused as you all know and… what all things happened under TADA law.
Large number of innocent were arrested, tortured, kept inside. I remember Justice Ajit Singh Bains, a retired judge of the Punjab High Court, elderly man and what he did, he did a public meeting, he was talking of the operation that was going on in Punjab.. elsewhere and he said in a public meeting some day we will be free from this.
Now the TADA law had the provision for ‘disruptive’ activities. Nobody could have said anything about disruption of this country. Nobody could have spoken about cessation of any part of the country. Nobody could have said Kashmir should get independence… somebody… or some other part should be free. Nobody could have spoken about it. And if you say anything of that kind that would be an offence. So when Justice Ajit Singh Bains only said one day we will be free from this, what he meant was free from oppression, free from injustice, what happened to him? He was arrested, hand cuffed… a judge of the High Court hand cuffed… paraded… in the street and taken before the High Court. The High Court judges could not give bail.. that was the law. Went to Supreme Court…. Supreme Court could not give bail, so he had to remain inside for nearly more than a year. What happened in the end of it? There’s no case. This was the kind of thing… that was the law. Under TADA law… over 75,000 persons were arrested, they were all kept inside… no bail was given to them and under the TADA law.. the police could extract confessions, torture, variety of ways of torture, violence in torture.. all sorts of things and they extract confessions and ultimately what happened in the end of.. when the TADA came to an end.. some time in 1995 you’ll find.. at the end of it, large number of houses, people suffered.. all sorts of injustice, but the end of it 72,000 pers.. innocent person were just released. No trail, no case, nothing of the kind, but they suffered injustice for months together, years together inside the jail. And again what’s the conviction rate? Again one conviction under TADA law was only 1.8% so yet the TADA law had its effect, it made the police autocrats. The police could do whatever they like and none could do anything. The politicians could use TADA law for whatever they wanted and they could arrest and keep any person behind the bar and nothing could.. Could have been done.
So in 1995 the law lapsed because there was wide spread protest against this law. We all protested TADA is a draconian law and we don’t want that kind of law. And it did not brought any terrorism down…. If you think of terrorism as such. So this came to an end from 1995. Then of course came 9/11.. 2001 and what we did immediately, nothing happened in India, whatever happened, happened in New York, World Trade Centre.. yet Bush had announced.. Wa… its an… and immediately he said that there is War against Terrorists and Bush had again said those who are not with us are against us. And we wanted to show.. Oh we are with America. We are with Bush. So what we did we brought POTA. Again what happened in POTA, it’s a versatile law and hold all law… you can arrest any one under POTA. Again the same thing happened, what happened under TADA law and large number of people suffered and whether… they were arrested… terrorist or no terrorist, nobody knows what it was. This is the kind of law… law was brought only to terrorize the people. See this is relevant because today people do talk of POTA, they want a law like POTA, after what happened on 7/11 in the trains in Bombay. Or what happened in Malegaon two days ago, they say without law… harsh law.. we cannot control terrorism. And I can tell you harsh law had never been able to control terrorism anywhere in this country or any where in the world.
Again when POTA was there…as I tell you POTA was being debated in the Parliament and what happened was, when the audience was being debated there was attack on Parliament on 13th of December 2001. Thereafter POTA was passed, in Calcutta, there was US information centre was bombed. Then came Akshardham temple, some 24th September 2002. Then came Ragunath Mandir, 24th November 2002, the we had in Ghatkopar, Mumbai, Mulund on 2nd of December and then of course Gateway of India, Zaveri Bazar, 25th of August 2003, so inspite of the law this... whatever… bomb blast are continuing and POTA had no effects on whatsoever.
In the year 2002, according to a statement made by the attorney general of India, that time… 4038 terrorist related violent incident took place in Jammu and Kashmir. Inspite of the army and other security personal and the law the number of terrorist killed on the spot, in the year 2002 was 1707 of which 508 were said to be foreigners. In Kashmir, the total number of people killed during the last about 17 year’s amounts to about 80,000. Thousands have simply disappeared and this has happened even in Punjab. Punjab also when Khalistan movement was there… large number of people were disappeared, nobody knows what happened to them. Till the other day, some years ago they found the dead bodies, the skeletons on the side of the river Beas. I remember, I had gone there to conduct an enquiry and what I noticed there was… I went around, talked to people, I went around met some.. went to some houses, and most of the houses, the elderly couple were there and the younger children were there. The in between generation was not there. Nobody knows what happened to them. They were taken to the police stations in the mid night and next day.. they… they would not come back and after eight days or ten days they would be found dead somewhere here or there.. this is a kind of law.
So question is violence is a continues thing, killing and counter killing. In Kashmir, in Manipur, I went to Manipur.. aa .. it came the same thing. In Chattisgarh, in Telengana, in many places killing has been routine. The other day prime minister suggested we should have counter terrorist wardens. What’s the meaning “Counter Terrorist Wardens”? Who should be counter terrorist warden? You and I? we take the role of counter terrorist wardens. I don’t know, the Prime Minister suggested that. What happened in Kashmir? We made an experiment some years ago. We had arrested large numbers of Kashmiris. They were all rotting in the jail, confined to the jail and what we did was… our government said… brain washed them, told them you go back… and go back and tell the people they should not fight like this, they should be fred.. they should change their attitude out towards India, do that. But they said we will go, we will be attacked.. so the government.. what the government did?… we’ll give them guns.. so the people who went back were given guns and I remember… during one of those elections our people’s union…P.U.D.R… aa democratic rights organization brought a report and there was a voting at that time which said, “Gun point…’ voting at gun point.. there was an army.. gun point.. from the militants, gun point from the security force, there is a gun point from.. from the.. from the militant, from the other security officials and there was a gun point of these… by these people. Would that solve a problem? Violence against violence! Again what they did in Chhattisgarh the other day. Chhattisgarh there are Maoists are there.. Naxals are there.. how to eliminate them? So we have started a brigade of tribals.. over 5000 tribals were asked to join and then they call it “Salwa Judum” and with the result what happened was? All the tribals were killed but the Naxalites are still there. This is a kind of thing that we are thinking.
So what I’m trying to say is …. Not a single terrorist in this country aaaa.. has been tried or convicted, that is of the kind. What you have done is only killing. In Bombay.. for example.. Bomb blast took place in 93… 93, conviction of course still we don’t know, what conviction.. the real cultprit.. Where are the real culprit, We don’t know. Of course people who have been rotting in jail for thirteen years and so on… tomorrow is supposed to be the “The Day” the judgment day… I don’t know whether the judgement will come or not, this is the kind of thing. And again you’ll find… in Akshardham, there was a attack… again, who are the culprits? They were shot dead. In Parliament attack.. who are the culprit? We don’t know… we shot them dead. This is the kind of thing we are doing. So we have only violence as in answer to violence, that is all the kind of things.
Even after 9/11 what did Bush do? He declared a war. War against whom? War against terrorist. War against Osama bin Laden, what did he do? He bombarded Afghanistan. He killed large number of poor people… no one is sure whether Osama bin Laden was killed or not.. but large number of innocent people died. So was in Iraq… they said ok.. Talibans are in Iraq, they also said Iraq has got what they call… weapons of mass destruction, no evidence of that. And yet of course he… today the evidence has come there is no Taliban also there in Iraq and yet what he did was bombarded…war… War against Iraq. Large number of innocent people died. The number of… number lost to terrorist atrocities in New York, on the World Trade Centre coming down is less than a tenth of the toll in Iraq, that kind of killing. If there is anyone who can be called terrorist, I said this in an earlier occasion and I repeat again… if there is anyone who can be called as terrorist it should be George W Bush.
He has declared a War and it is not a war according to law, its an unjust war and not according to the international law. And everyone has a right to protest against that war. Anyone could protest, anyone could condemn that kind of war. Be a Hindu, Christian, Muslim, fundamentalist or otherwise you have a right to protest. Just because we protest and condemn we cannot be considered as terrorist.
One of the most difficult problems is to define ‘ Terrorism’. See we’ll talk of terrorist… terrorist.. terrorist.. where is the definition of terrorism? How do you define terrorism? TADA did not define terrorism. POTA did not define terrorism, only terrorist acts were defined and those acts could be even under Indian Penal Code…. They are not different… murder, killing, dacoity, guns… all are under the ordinary law. But the discretion of police.. they can use it as a act of terrorism under TADA law. It will…could be broadly.. that the deliberate killing of the innocent civilians… you find this kind of definition in the .. in the dictionary. It could be agreed that a deliberate killing of innocent civilians is a central element in most definitions of terrorism. Then in that event the worst terrorist in the last century should be the USA for bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where suffering of large number of innocent people had never been healed even after six decades. Just killed lakhs of people in these two places. So also the first violators of the 21st century as it began are the USA and Great Britain. There’s not much difference between George W Bush and Lashkar e Taiba… both believe in killing.. killing helps them… killing keeps alive the tension in this region. That is what they want, that is their business.
So the USA has a business of encouraging killing… killing everywhere… it gives them a market… it gives them a market for supply of arms.. so also so Lashkar e Taiba believe in killing, it gives them a market.. so while both stick to will power… one of course with the superior power of USA and the other trying to build up his own other category of power. So it has become the global war.. in this way as in terrorism becomes a permanent feature of these persons… in other words permanent feature of American policy.. is a global war.. it will never come to an end.. as long as the fear of terrorism is there.. they are happy. As a result of this what is happening in the rest of the world is that freedom and liberty gets curtailed. We are now gradually sliding into what is called a security society. Today as you must have seen as we walked in… what happened to all of us… everyone had to be checked up. You… security. Internal security… so we are going into a security society. security is more important…not liberty.. your security.. other…you must have read in the newspaper what is called ‘Advance Passenger Information System’. You get into a place in London… within 15 minutes your full history is sent to Bombay or which ever destination.. when you land there the police are there.. Police know your full history. You’ve gone to Dubai half a dozen times ok… that is enough they could do anything they like. For example what happened in Amsterdam..as you all know.. they saw some people.. people behaving in the plane… people behaving in a very suspicious way.. their appearance.. their dress.. their speaking language.. looking like Arabs.. looking at watch frequently.. bearded Muslims and Burqa clad women… ok.. all these are suspicious… suspicious character… these kind of thing.
So security becomes more important and this a kind of policing that goes on and as a result of that we have all sorts of things and gone in this country everywhere because under security society the police can do anything they like. Other day you must have read the .. Antop Hill.. some body was found in a building which was supposed to have neglec…. Nobody was there. What happened was… the police suddenly found.. he was a Pakistani they said… one doesn’t know.. they went and shot him.. killed him.. nobody.. no proof nothing of the kind.
So because in the name of security the society accepted… society did not protest.. who was killed nobody knows. So the police again believe in this kind of.. because it helps them.. they don’t have to prove a case.. they can detain anyone… keep him inside the police station.. days together… without a charge.. without anything, in the name of investigation.
Infact I the other day.. I went to the minority commission. What happened was people are being just rounded up and taken to… taken to the police station.
What is the law… if you are taken to the police station.. if you are a witness your statement has to be recorded and then you have to go home. If you are not a witness you are a suspect, then your name should be there somewhere.. your name should be there in the F.I.R.… or they should have advance information… but they just cant take you to the police station say… you are a suspect… you don’t know anything about me… but you are a suspect… you keep me.. you torture me inside.. you keep me for days together.. no station diary entry.. no report and one fine day you handcuff than man with another unknown person who’s supposed to come from Pakistan and they say you are connected with the two.. together. This is a kind of system.
So in the name of security today police can do whatever they like. Anyone can be killed in an encounter, that’s and no investigation. In the name of security every movement of yours can be tracked.. your bank accounts.. for example… your transactions.. all come under the… under the check. In the name of security… see the other day the rule has come in Bombay city you can’t sell or buy a property… you can rent out your house…. You want to rent out you have to go and inform… inform the police officer… so the police have to be informed… so liberty is becoming a casualty, you are literally going to be enslaved. So this kind… this encourage ultimately you… slowly slowly your rights have been taken away. Your liberty is being taken away. You are enslaved. This is the kind of thing.
And I tell you this is not something new. When TADA was introduced.. also it introduced for the sake of security.. even the Supreme Court, though it was a draconian law, unjust law… after Maneka Gandhi’s case nobody could have upheld that kind of law. Yet the Supreme Court upheld that law.. again in the name of internal security… in the name of security.. that was the main consideration. They upheld POTA law again in the name of security. They upheld Armed Forces Special Powers Act, which had havoc in North Eastern states, in Manipur and so… those places, yet we upheld the law in the name of security. All our principles or war.. the liberal society.. justice, social, economical, everything all they have forgotten. This a kind of approach. So this is called necessary.. we must understand this violence must come to an end.
So what is the solution. Solution is not arms? Solution is not violence. Violence against violence… be it from the people or the state.. no… what is required is.. that why is…that there is be so much violence in the society. Our approach should be.. why there is this kind of terrorism? What is the reason for that? That is the thing government must understand… not arms, not this kind of harsh law. I tell you… there is so much of injustice in the society.
Go to any part of India.. anywhere.. so much of injustice.. rich and the powerful can get away the imperil, they.. nothing happens to them.
America can invade any country.. nothing happens to them.. internationally. Within India the rich and power full are not bothered, they don’t go in for voting but they get what ever they want. But the poor what happened to the poor. The marginalized … huge projects for example.. we have built huge projects.. I have got details of statistics if they want I can give them. What happens to them? Narmada Dam is the simplest example.. came up.. came up, what happened to the people who were affected? Large number of tribals, what happened to them? They had lost their land, lost everything, yet nothing happens to them.. what should they do. In Bombay we have 40 lakhs or more people live in slums, what the government doing? Government is demolishing them. You’re right to housing, internationally recognized, right to housing, right to shelter, part of universal declaration.. human rights, international, common, civilian, political, economical, social, cultural rights. All this is a forgotten. Supreme Court has said repeatedly in the past.. Article 21, right to life includes everything which goes with human dignity. Your food, your clothing, your shelter, your health, your education, what are we doing today? Everything we are not bothering.
The government think its not his business. The government think it is not their job. They are slowly abdicating their responsibilities. In a situation like.. what should the people do? If you’re thrown away from your house. You don’t get justice in the court of law. What you do? In Vidharbha large number of people committing suicide repeated approaches, repeated pleas, government is indifferent, government is doing nothing.. what should the people do? This are the questions? How do you answer?
I remember once Arundhati Roy said, in a situation like this where people gets no justice, nothing happens to them, at that times what happens to them is they refuse to take this into account. I remember I went to Gujarat after the riots, large number of young children have seen their mothers and sister being raped and burnt. Nobody guided them, nobody gave them education, nobody gave them any psychiatric treatment or anything. The trauma was there. What should they do? Who gave them justice? Could the system give justice or not? I do not justify taking arms.. but a government has a responsibility, the government must take into account, if you don’t care for the victims the victim will try to take care of things by themselves and that is the point.. and so what Arundhati Roy said was,
“When victims refuse to be victims they are called Terrorist”
So you are all victims of the unjust thing that is going on in this country, in this society. We must.. government must take major role, not by bringing harsh law, not by creating counter terrorism wardens. Not by blaming particular community or anything, not by dors.. by taking care of human rights. Your right to food, your right to shelter, your right to education, right to health, right to a living, livelihood, if these things are taken care of, automatically they will change the society. I think that is the goal that I want to tell you. Thank you very much for giving me this chance.. thank you.
Dr. Mohammed Naik: Thank you Justice Hosbet Suresh for your frank judgmental comments on the injustice that we see around us.. Exposing reality before our audience is well appreciated by all present here.
Once again in Ernest on behalf of the Islamic Research Foundation I welcome each one of you present here at this interesting and serious talk. It would be followed by an open question and answer session in which you can ask Dr. Zakir Naik any question on the topic.
As concerns about the causes and effects of terrorism rise. As distinguishing between War and Peace, Religion and Politics gets difficult. As media reports instills in us a fear psychosis and Islamaphobia amongst billions of people world wide we all wonder and so does the world around Muslims, “Is Terrorism a Muslim Monopoly?”
Our speaker for today Dr. Zakir Naik is the president of the Islamic Research Foundation, Mumbai and a medical doctor. An internationally acclaimed orator on Islam and Comparative Religion, Dr. Zakir Naik has delivered more than 1000 public talks worldwide in the last ten years. He appears regularly on many international TV Channels in over 150 countries.
Brothers and sister, addressing the notion “Is Terrorism a Muslim Monopoly?”…… all yours….. Dr. Zakir Naik
Dr. Zakir Naik:
Alhamdulillah, was salaatu was salaam ala rasoolillah wa ala aalihi wa ashaabihi wa ajma’een, amma baad. A’uzu billahi minash shaytan nir-rajeem, Bismillah hirrahman nirraheem.
Wa Qul Jaa’a al Haqq Wa Zahaq Al Baatil. Innal Baatil Kaana Zahuqa.
Rabbish rahli Şadri Wa Yassir Li 'Amri Wa Ahlul `Uqdatan Min Lisani Yafqahu Qawli.
Honourable Justice Hosbet Suresh, My respected elders and my dear brothers and sisters, I welcome all of you with the Islamic greetings As Salaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu, May peace, mercy and blessings of Allah (swt), of Almighty God be on all of you.
The topic of this evening’s talk is “Is Terrorism a Muslim Monopoly?”
First let us understand what is the meaning of the word ‘Terrorism.’ It is very difficult to define the word Terrorism. There are various different definitions and many of them contradict. The definition is intangible. It keeps on changing depending upon the geographical location and the historical fact. It is very difficult to define terrorism.
But according to the Oxford Dictionary, it says that “Terrorism is a use of violent actions to get and fulfill a political aims or to force a government to act.”
This word terrorism was initially first time coined in 1790’s during the French Revolution. And it was in 1790’s that the statesman, Edwinberg, who was a British Statesman, he used this word to describe the Jacoben ruled French regime. And the year 1793 & 1794 it was called as “The Reign of Terror”, “The Years of Terror.”
And Maximilin Robespierre he was heading this government. And during that time, he has killed thousands of people. He has guillotined thousands of innocent human beings. Historical records they tell us that he had arrested more than 500,000 human beings out of which 40’000 he had executed. More than 200,000 were deported and more than 200,000 they were starved and tortured to death in the prisons.
So this word Terrorism was initially coined to describe the people during French revolution.
Today we have in the international media, there is a very common statement, which is repeatedly bombarded, especially in the western media and that statement is,
“All Muslims are not Terrorist, but all Terrorist are Muslims.”
And this statement was even imported to India specially after the 11th of July, the serial train bomb blast that took place in Bombay, especially to Bombay. And we find even in India specially in Bombay, people kept on repeating this statement, that;
“All Muslims are not Terrorist, but all Terrorist are Muslims.”
Let us analyze today, what do the historical records tell us and what does the data on Terrorist Attack that is available in world history, what do they tell us.
When we look at the records, in 19th Century we can hardly find any terrorist attacks has been done by Muslims. Time does not permit me to speak about the details of the attacks taken place. In 19th Century, I’ll just mention a couple of them.
We know that in 1881, Tsar Alexander II of Russia, he was assassinated. He was traveling in a bulletproof carriage in St. Petersburg Street. There was a bomb that kills innocent 21 bystanders. He comes out of the bulletproof carriage, another bomb comes and he is killed. He was not killed by a Muslim, He was killed by Ignacy. “He was a Pole from Burbusk. He was a Non Muslim. He was Anarchists.
We know in 1886 there was a Bomb Blast that took place in Haymarket, in Chicago during a labour rally and 12 innocent people were killed; one amongst them was a policeman by the name of Diegen. Later on seven policemen were injured and they died in the hospital. The people responsible for this act they were not Muslims, they were 8 Anarchists all of them non-Muslims.
When we analyze the record of the terrorist that have taken place in the 20th Century, we know from the Historical records that on the 6th of September 1901, the then President of USA, William McKinley he was assassinated by an Anarchist named Leon. He was shot twice by Leon. He was a non-Muslim.
On the 1st of October, 1910 there was a Bomb blast that took place in Los Angeles Times newspaper building in which 21 innocent people were killed. The people responsible for this bomb blast, they were two Christians by the name of James and Joseph. They were union leaders. They were Non Muslims.
We know that on the 28th of June 1914, in Sarvajo, France, the Archduke of Austria along with his wife they were assassinated which precipitated the World War I. The people responsible for this assassination they were called the Young Bosnia, most of them were Serbs. They were non-Muslims.
From historical record we come to know that on the 16th of April 1925 there was a Bomb Blast that took place in St. Nedelya Church in Sofia, the capital of Bulgaria. In which more than 150 were killed and more than 500 injured. It was the biggest terrorist attack that has taken place on the soil of Bulgaria. It was conducted by the Bulgarian Communist Party. They were non-Muslims.
We know from historical records that on the 9th of October 1934, King Alexander 1 of Yugoslavia he was assassinated by a gunman by the name of Vlada Georgieff. He was a non-Muslim.
The 1st U.S. Plane to be hijacked it was not by a Muslim. It was by a non Muslim by the name of Ramierez Ortiz. He hijacked the US Airliner to Cuba and he later on got there asylum.
When we go to the records of terrorist attacks done, we come to know that in the year 1968 the Ambassador to Guatemala he was assassinated by a non-Muslim.
In 1969, the Ambassador of Japan he was knifed by a Japanese, a non-Muslim.
The Ambassador to Brazil, 1969, he was kidnapped by a non-Muslim.
The famous attack, the Oklahoma Bombing which took place on 19th of April, 1995, where there was a truck loaded with the bomb which ran into the federal building in Oklahoma, which killed 166 innocent human beings and 100s other were injured.
Initially in the press, “Middle East Conspiracy”. For days together later on they came to know it were two Right Wing Activist, Christians, by the name of Timothy and Terry who were responsible for the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma. But when this news comes, it comes for a couple of days and then vanishes. But before for several days, Middle East Conspiracy, Middle East Conspiracy.
After World War II from 1941 to 1948, in a span of eight years, 259 terrorist attacks were conducted by Jewish Terrorists. By many organizations. Irgnun, Stern Gang, Haganah
And we know of the famous bombing of King David Hotel which took place on the 22nd of July 1946, they were conducted by Irgnun under the leadership of Menachem Begin. In which 91 innocent people were killed, out of which 28 were British, 41 were Arabs, 17 Jews and 5 others.
The Ignun group they dressed up as Arabs to show as though the Muslims did the bombing. And the person responsible was Menachem Begin. And it was the biggest terrorist attack against the history of British mandate in which 91 people were killed. And at that time Menachem Begin, he was called as terrorist number one by the British government. Later on after a few years he becomes the Prime Minister of Israel and later on after a few years he gets the Noble Prize for Peace. Imagine a person who has killed….a person who has killed hundreds and thousands of innocent human being becomes the Prime Minister of Israel and later on gets a Noble Prize for Peace. And most of the groups that were fighting like Stern Gang, Irgnun, Haganah all of these Jewish groups and their leaders like Yitzhak Rabin, Menachem Begin, Ariel Sharon later on became Prime Ministers and high holding ranks in the state of Israel and all of them they were fighting for a Jewish state.
If you see the world map before 1945, Israel did not exist, Israel didn’t exist. These Jewish group they were called as terrorist by the Britishers. They fought for a Jewish state, later on with power they grabbed the land and they kick the Palestinians out and now these same people are calling the same Palestinian who are fighting for a more just cause for getting their land back. And they are labeled today as ‘terrorist’ by the Israelis.
Imagine, Hitler incinerated 6 million Jews. He kicks the Jewish community out. Why should they come to Palestine? The Palestinians they welcome the cousins with open hands. If they should take a land, they should go back to Germany, they should go back to Europe. Imagine, the Palestinians they welcome their cousins. Imagine suppose a visitor comes to your house, being a stranger you welcome him in your house after a few days he kicks you out of the house and when you cry at the door step, I want my house back, people call you a terrorist.
This is exactly what is exactly happening, today the Palestinians they are called as Terrorist, for what? They only want their land back. And so called people most of these powerful first world countries they are agreeing with this unjust cause.
We know that in Germany from Historical records from 1968 to 1992, the Baader Meinhoff Gang they killed several innocent human beings.
In Italy, we come to know from records about the Red Brigades which has killed several innocent human beings. They were also responsible for kidnapping the Prime Minister of Italy, Aldo Moro. And after 55 days they killed him.
Further when we come, a similar gang, a similar terrorist outfit we know was also in Japan. The Japanese Red Army. There was a Buddhist Cult, Aum Shinrikyo, a Buddhist Cult and they tried to kill thousands of people in the Tokyo Subway by the nerve gas but unfortunately they weren’t very successful, they were only able to kill 12 people but more than 5700 innocent human beings, they were injured and wounded because of this nerve gas. They were Buddhist.
In UK for about hundred years the IRA, Irish Republican Army they are conducting attacks against UK. They are Catholics. But they are never called as Catholic Terrorist. They are called as IRA. And we know they have conducted several terrorist attacks. Only in 1972, 3 bomb blasts were done. In the first one 7 people were killed, in second one 11 were killed and third one 9 were killed. In 1974 they did 2 bomb blasts. In the Guildford Pub they killed 5 innocent people and injured 44 people. In the Birmingham Pub 21 innocent people were killed by the bomb blast and 182 were injured.
Time does not permit me to speak about all the activities they did, I’m just mentioning a few. Just at random. In 1996 they did a Bomb Blast in London where 2 people were killed and more than were 100 were injured.
Further 1996 a Bomb Blast was done in the shopping are of Manchester where 206 people were injured.
In 1998, ‘Banbridge’ bomb blast where 500 pound of bomb was loaded in a car in which 35 innocent people were injured.
In the same year we know from records about the ‘Omagh’ bomb blast where 500 pound of bomb was put in a car and 29 innocent people were killed and 330 were injured.
All these records are from Non Muslim sources, they have not been written by Muslims. All from non Muslim sources. From Amnesty reports, from BBC. If you go on the internet you can cross check. But many a times when the number is big, there may be a difference. Like today we know… how many people killed? 296, one report says 294…one says 293. So I played safe and say more than 290. the report if it’s a large number mat differ by few here and there. If it’s a small number it’s precise. All these by non Muslim sources.
In 2001 the BBC was bombed by IRA. But these people they are not called as Catholic Terrorist. Today the UK government is more afraid of Muslim terrorist. I don’t know from the records of the UK government how many confirmed Muslim terrorist have done bomb blast in UK. Even the London Bombing of 7th July… there’s no confirmed report. They are suspected to be Muslims. It’s not confirmed. In which more than 50 people were killed. One report says 52, one report says 56, therefore I say more than 50 people were killed. Even if we agree for the sake of argument that they were Muslims who did the 7th July Bomb Blast in the year 2005, yet they come nowhere close to IRA. IRA puts these bomb blast to shame. They have killed hundreds and thousands of people. Yet today the UK government is more afraid…. IRA is doing since more than a hundred years. But because of the advice of George Bush, Tony Blair is more afraid of the ‘Muslim terrorists’ rather than the problem which is there for more than a hundred years.
We know from the historical records that in Spain and France, the terrorist organization is ETA. They have conducted 36 attacks and in Africa there are so many organizations the list is exhaustive but the one which is worth noting and one of the most notorious is called as the ‘Lord’s Salvation Army’, it’s a Christian terrorist organisation. They train young children to commit terrorist attacks.
When we come to Sri Lanka we know of the LTTE, Tamil Tigers. They are supposed to be one of the most notorious, most violent terrorist of all the terrorist organizations in the world. They are the people who are experts in suicide bombings and they even take help of children, they train them and they let them take part in suicide bombing. Normally people are known that the Palestinian do suicide bombings, Iranian does suicide bombing. If you know the Historical record, the people who have popularized suicide bombings are the LTTE, Tamil Tigers. Who are they? They are Hindu’s. But the Indian report doesn’t say Hindu terrorists, they say LTTE.
When we come to India many a times, most of the terrorist attacks that we hear of…. Majority of them they talk about Kashmiri militants. Whether the attacks are right or wrong we can discuss some other time. But how many times do we here and what Justice Hosbet Suresh said, he named many of the terrorist attacks taking place in India, I wonder how many of the people in the audience have heard of them in the newspapers… how many? Those people who are involved, like Honorable people like Justice Hosbet Suresh and those in the field, they are aware of it. But the General masses, we aren’t aware of it. Whenever terrorist attacks are talked about, most often they are talked about Muslim terrorist. Why?
In India there are terrorist organizations belonging to almost all different religions. Almost all.
We know of the Sikh terrorist organization, the ‘Bhindranwala’ group in Punjab. We know that the Indian government on the 5th of June, 1984, they took over the Golden Temple in which 100 human beings were killed. In retaliation a few months later on 31st of October, 1984, the then Prime Minister, Shrimati Indira Gandhi, she was assassinated by one of her security guard who was a Sikh.
If you go to the South Asian Terrorism portal site not run by Muslims, run by Non-Muslims and you see the list of terrorist attacks done by all the people, the Muslims are in a minority. But that’s never highlighted in the media.
If you go to North East of India, if you go to Tripura the Christian terrorist organizations exists. Like ATTF, All Tripura Tiger Force. NLFT National Liberation Front of Tripura. They’re Christians; they have killed several Hindu’s. Reports if you go on the site, 4 Hindu’s killed, 8 Hindu’s killed. On the 2nd of October 2004, 44 Hindus were killed and several were injured by this group. They were Christians.
In Assam ULFA, ULFA alone in a span of the past 16 years from 1990 to 2006 they have conducted successfully 749 terrorist attacks. They will put the Kashmiri militants to shame. 749 confirmed terrorist attacks. But when we read in the newspapers we only know about the Kashmiri attacks.
And I remember couple of years back, I’m called Al Hamdulillah by God’s grace by several parts of India, several parts of the world. I had many invitations from Kashmir. But is it the right time to go.. yes or no… finally in September 2003, I decided to go to Kashmir and there I gave a talk in Srinagar and they told me… the organizers that in the past 14 years first time the government gave permission for a public talk. And they organized my talk in Polo grounds in Kashmir in which hundred thousand people attended. In all this turmoil and the government gave me security. I was wondering why are all these people with machine guns with me. I went on to the various sites, Gulmarg, Pahelgam, gave talks etc…. fine…. I didn’t think it was required. Later on I happened to go to Assam to give talks. And the moment I land on the airport I find security guards around me… I said why? And there I thanked God, Al Hamdulillah… if they would not have been there, I would not have come back here. I did not know.. I did not know that so many terrorist are there in Assam.
The ULFA are trained only to target the Muslims, they are Hindus. How many times does the press, the media report about them? Because it’s not tantalizing. These reports, may come in the news briefs.. it does appear. News briefs… how many people note it. Never in the headlines… in news briefs.
Amongst the organizations…. Terrorist organization the Naxalites, we know of the Maoists. The Maoists are communist, number one terrorist attacks that have been done in India, maximum are by the Maoists. Only in Nepal, in the past 7 years they have conducted 99 terrorist attacks. And out of the 600 districts in India, according to the Indian Government, according to the site on terrorism they say, that they are present in 150 districts of India. They have done terrorist attacks in one-third part of India. Number one. If you compare, the people they have killed. The attack they have done. Compared to the Kashmiri militants, it’s nowhere comparable. The Maoists are a bigger danger for India but yet we find that the Government is more afraid of the Muslim terrorist. Why? The reason is George Bush.
Just a couple of days back on the 9th of September an article came in the Times of India, not on the front page… inside… but quite a big article that 875 rockets a haul of ammunition…. 875 rockets which were supposed to be supplied to the Maoist.. they were intercepted and they were confiscated and 30 rocket launchers… imagine it is the biggest haul in the history of India that any terrorist organization, that the government has caught. 875 rockets? They can wage a war against the Indian Army. And the DGP of Andhra Pradesh in Hyderabad… he was shocked. He said that with these rocket launchers they can attack any police station… any tanks of the Indian Government from a distance of 600 meters. From more than half a kilometer away they can attack the Indian tanks, the Indian police station and you can’t do anything. Rocket launchers! Yet we see people are more afraid of people who have a beard, people who are wearing a cap, people who have trouser above the ankle. Are they more dangerous than the rocket launchers?
Why? Why are they targeting the Muslims particularly? It’s a question. It is a ploy of the western media. The media controlled by the politicians. And when we analyze we can surely say without any doubt, that Terrorism is not a Muslim Monopoly. Not only is it not a Muslim monopoly, it is not even a specialty of the Muslims. It is not even encouraged in Islam. It is prohibited in Islam. I being a student of comparative religion I cannot say that all the religions say that you should not kill innocent human beings but I can surely say that most of the religion the majority of the religion if you read their scripture they say that you should not kill innocent human beings. And the leader of all these religions is Islam.
Islam says, it’s mentioned in the Qur’an, in Sura Maidah, Chapter No. 5, Verse No. 32, the Ayaat, the verse which was recited by the Qari it says, that
“If anyone, whether Muslim or Non Muslim, kills any other human being, whether Muslim or Non Muslim, it is as though he has killed the whole of humanity”.
I know of many religious scriptures which say that you should not kill innocent human beings, but Qur’an does not only say that it says that,
“if any one kills any other human being unless it be for murder or for creating corruption, or for spreading mischief in the land it is as though he has killed the whole of humanity.”
Qur’an goes a step further and says that,
“if you kill any innocent human beings, it is as though he has killed the whole of humanity”.
I don’t know of any religious scripture which says that if you kill any innocent human beings, it is as though he has killed the whole of humanity. And further Qur’an goes on to say, that,
“if you save any single life any single human being, it is as though you have saved the whole of humankind.”
Islam is derived from the Arabic word Salam or Salaam which means Peace. It comes from the Arabic word Silm, which means to submit your will to Almighty God. Islam in short means Peace acquired by submitting your will to Almighty God. Islam condemns all forms of Terrorism. All forms of acts which kill innocent human beings.
Irrespective whether its 9/11, where the twin tower were attacked or the 7th of July where more than 50 innocent people were killed in London Bomb Blast. The New York towers… more than 3000 people were killed. In the London Bomb Blast… more than 50 were killed. Or whether it be the serial bomb blast in 93 of Bombay where more than 250 people where killed or the Bomb blast that took place recently… on the 11th of July 2006 where more than 200 people were killed are to be condemned. It is prohibited. You cannot justify killing of any innocent human being.
Many Muslims, many a times to appease the Government they put a full stop there. I never put a full stop here. I continue and say, we also have to condemn the thousands of Afghanis that have been killed in Afghanistan. The thousands of innocent people that have been killed in Iraq. The thousands of people that have been killed in Gujarat. The thousands of people killed in Palestine. Thousands of people killed in Lebanon. We can’t put a full stop. Who are you afraid of? All soughts of terrorism in which innocent human beings are killed have to be condemned… whether done by Muslims or Non Muslims.
We don’t have records that 9/11 or 7th July or the recent serial bomb blasts in the train… confirmed records done by Muslims. It is just a hypothesis. But irrespective after we come to know the truth whether it is done by Muslims or Non Muslims, it is to be condemned, it is prohibited. We know that most of the religions they don’t preach that you should kill innocent human being.
Terrorism is not the monopoly of any religion. It is not. But when we analyze, we have terrorist that claim to profess certain religions, and when we analyze they are from all types of religions.
We have Christian terrorist, we have Catholic terrorist, we have Jewish terrorist, we have Hindu terrorist, we have Muslim terrorist, we have Buddhist terrorist, we have Sikh terrorist, terrorist professing various different faiths but most of the religions they condemn the killing of the innocent human beings. And when we do a survey that though we know that religions don’t encourage killing innocent human beings, when we do a survey and try and find out that the people that have killed the maximum human beings, which religion do you profess? Number one, the human being that has killed maximum innocent human beings… who is he? Who is he? Hitler. He has incinerated 6 million Jews. And indirectly if you count all the people killed in the World War II, 60 million people… number one… was he a Muslim? He was Christian.
Joseph Stalin called as Uncle Joe he has estimated to have killed 20 million human beings; he has starved 14.5 million human beings to death.
When we go to China, Mao Tse Tsung he has killed 14 to 20 million human beings. He was a Non Muslim. He was not a Muslim.
We know from record that Mussolini in Italy alone has killed 400,000 human beings. Innocent human beings.
The person after whom the French revolution is named, Maximilin Robespierre, he has starved and tortured to death more than 200,000 people and executed 40,000 people.
Ashoka, we know in one battle alone in Kalinga Battle he has killed 100,000 people, more than 100,000 people. Was he a Muslim? He was a Hindu.
We have our own black sheep also. Records tell us that Saddam Hussein is responsible for the death of few 100 thousands people. But the embargo put by George Bush on Iraq alone has killed half a million children in Iraq alone. Half a Million, in one short, only on the embargo put by USA, UN on Iraq, half a million children have died.
In Indonesia, Muhammad Suharto even he’s claimed to have killed 500,000 people. But it is nothing compared to Hitler. Nothing compared to Uncle Joe, Joseph Stalin, nothing compared to Mao Tse Tsung of China. Each individual will put all the Muslims together to shame. I’m not trying to say that the followers of this religion they were practicing their religion. They were not religious, otherwise they wouldn’t have ever killed innocent human beings.
But yet we find in the international media, we find that, Muslims are being targeted. Muslims are called as fundamentalist, as extremists, they are called as terrorist.
What is the meaning of the world fundamentalist? Fundamentalist by definition means a person who follows the fundamentals of one particular subject. For example, if a person wants to be a good Scientist, he should know, follow and practice the fundamentals of Science. Unless he is a fundamentalist in the field of science, he can’t be a good scientist. For a person to be a good mathematician, he should know, follow and practice the fundamentals of Maths. Unless he is a fundamentalist in the field of Maths, he cannot be a good Mathematician.
You can’t paint all fundamentalist with the same brush, that all are good or all are bad, depending in which field the person is a fundamentalist, you have to label him accordingly. If you have a fundamentalist robber, whose profession is to rob, he’s bad for the society. On the other hand, if you have a fundamentalist doctor who saves thousands of human beings, he is good for the society. So depending in which field the person is a fundamentalist, you have to label him accordingly. As far as I am concerned, I am a fundamentalist Muslim and I am proud to be a fundamentalist Muslim.
Because I know, I follow and I strive to practice the fundamentalists of Islam. And I know that there is not a single fundamental of Islam which is against humanity as a whole. There may be…. There may be a few fundamentals of Islam which the non Muslim may feel against humanity, but the moment you give the logical reason, background for these fundamentals, there is not a single unbiased human being, who can point a single fundamental of Islam which is against humanity as a whole.
This word fundamentalism, you come to know from Websters Dictionary that it was first coined to describe a group of Christians in the earlier part of twentieth century in America who protested against the Church. They were called as Protestant Christian. Initially the Church, they believed, the message of the Bible is from God. These Protestant Christians, they protested and said not only is the message of the Bible from God, every word, every letter of the Bible is from God.
If someone can prove that every word, every letter of the Bible is from God, this movement is a good movement. On the other hand, if someone can prove that every word of the Bible is not from Almighty God, then this movement is not a good movement.
When we refer to the Oxford Dictionary for the definition of the word fundamentalist, is says that fundamentalist is a person who strictly adheres to the ancient teachings and doctrine of any religion. But when we refer to the revised new edition, there is a slight change. The new addition says that fundamentalist is a person who strictly adheres to the ancient teachings and doctrine of any religion especially Islam. So the word especially Islam has been added to the revised definition.
The moment you hear the world Muslim you start thinking he’s a fundamentalist, he is an extremist, he is a terrorist. And many of us Muslims we go on the defense, I’m not a fundamentalist, I’m not a extremist. I say I’m a extremist. I’m extremely honest, I’m extremely just, I’m extremely kind, I’m extremely peaceful, I’m extremely merciful.
I want to know what is wrong in being extremely just, extremely honest, extremely kind, extremely merciful. You can’t be partly just. When it benefits you and if you are just, when it doesn’t benefit, not…. You have to extremely just, that’s what the Qur’an says. Our religious scripture, the word of Almighty God says you have to be fully just. You cant expect a judge to be partly just, when he wants he does justice otherwise no so what’s wrong? And I want to ask any human being can he tell me that being extremely honest is wrong, extremely just is wrong, extremely peaceful is wrong. We have to be an extremist but in the right direction. So when someone says I’m an extremist I have to be an extremist Muslim. Only if I am an extremist Muslim can I be a good Muslim, otherwise I can’t.
I know these terminologies have been manipulated. The definition keeps on changing, but we have to turn the tables over. We can’t partly follow the Qur’an, we have to extremely and completely follow the Qur’an,
Allah says in the Qur’an in Surah Baqarah, Chapter No. 2, Verse No. 208, Allah says,
“Ud Khulufissilmi Ka’afah”
“Enter into Islam wholeheartedly”
Today Muslims they are labels as terrorist.
The basic and simple definition of terrorist is, is a person who caused terror. For example, if a criminal sees a policeman, he is terrified. So for the criminal, the policeman is a terrorist. In this context I say that every Muslim should be terrorist. Whenever any criminal sees a Muslim he should be terrified. Whenever any rapist sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. Whenever any robber sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. Whenever any anti social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified.
That’s what the Qur’an says in Surah Anfaal, Chapter No. 8, Verse No. 60, that “Cause terror in the hearts of the anti social elements”.
Those people who are killing wrong people, who are against humanity, Qur’an says cause terror in their hearts. I know that commonly the word terrorist means, terrorizing innocent human beings. In this context, no Muslim should ever terrorise any innocent human being. It is prohibited in Islam.
We know that many a time’s two different labels are given for the same person for the same individual for the same activity. More than 60 back, when India was being ruled by the British government, there were many Indians who were fighting for the freedom of their country. These Indians, who were fighting for the freedom of their country, by the British government, they were called as terrorist. But we common Indians, we call them as freedom fighters as patriots. Same people, same activity, two different labels. If you agree with the view of British government, that they had a right to rule over India, then you have to call these people as terrorist. But if you agree with the view of the common Indians that the Britishers came to India to do business, they had no right to rule over us, then you have to call them as Patriots, as freedom fighters.
These same very Britishers they call Bhagat Singh, Chandra Shekar Azad, Subhas Chandra Bose as terrorist.. do we agree? Not at all. Just because the Britishers say, just because the American say we don’t have to believe. We have to fight for justice, they were patriots, they were freedom fighters.
Therefore before you give a label to any individual you have to try and find out for what reason is he striving. We have several such examples in world history. Time does not permit us to give all the details. I’ll just give one more example of the American Revolution which took place in the 19th century.
And we know in 1875 during American Revolution there were many Americans who were fighting for the freedom, the Britishers were ruling America… and these people who fought for their freedom by the British government they were called as Terrorist and number one in the forefront was Benjamin Franklin, George Washington.
We know that these people by the British Government they were called as Terrorist No. 1. George Washington was called Terrorist No. 1. Later on he becomes the President of USA and he happens to be… the same terrorist number one, he becomes the President of USA and happens to be he Godfather of all the presidents to come including George Bush. Imagine the same people who the Britishers called as Terrorist now they are allies, they are the best friends. The time keeps on changing depending upon historical background, depending upon geographical background, what we come to know in short, whoever is in power, whatever label he gives, the label gets stuck. Whoever is in power……… today America is supposed to be in power, they have the media with them.. so who they call as terrorist the label gets stuck. It gets stuck.
I had gone to Australia in December 2001 just a couple of months after 9/11 and one of my first talks was in the city of Perth. I gave a talk on Jihad and Terrorism an Islamic Perspective.
The first question that was asked to me was by the American Consulate General of Perth, and the first question he asked me… that Dr. Naik do you consider Osama Bin Laden to be a terrorist and I told him… as far as Osama bin Laden is concerned, I don’t know…I haven’t met him... I haven’t interrogated him. He’s neither my friend, neither is he my enemy. I cannot give the answer based on the news reports of BBC and CNN. If you want an answer based on BBC and CNN you have no option to but to say he is a terrorist. But, the Qur’an says in Surah Hujurat Chapter No. 49 Verse No. 6.
That “whenever you get an information check it up before you pass on to the second person”.
So therefore as far as Osama Bin Laden is concerned I cannot say whether he is a terrorist or not. He’s neither my friend, neither my enemy, I haven’t interrogated him, but what I can say very well that we have got establish proof, very well from the same media controlled by them from CNN, from BBC… we know that thousand of innocent Afghans have been killed in Afghanistan. Thousands of Iraqis have been killed in Iraq…. Even if we agree 9/11 they say was done by Osama bin Laden.. no proof.. hypothetical… when the Afghanistan government wants proof George Bush gives it to Tony Blair, he gives it to Musharraf. And normally even if we agree for sake of argument Osama bin Laden did it… for sake of argument… but does it justify in killing thousands of innocent people? Normally on international level there’s extradition policy that whenever any person who is a culprit in your country goes to another country you can get him back. For example India and UK have extradition policy. A few years back one of the music director Nadeem according to the Indian government he was involved in murder, he goes and sits in UK. The Indian government has an extradition policy with UK but when they wanted him back they said that prove it that he is a culprit. Many people from India went there our police force went there, they could not prove, they even had to pay for the lawyer charges of that Nadeem.
We know that in the Bhopal gas tragedy, we know that thousands of innocent Indians were killed. The person of Union Carbide goes to America and sits there. Imagine the Indian government attacking America, give the person back? Is it right? Why don’t they do it? It is proved……. Union Carbide… thousands of innocent human beings killed, injured, wounded, damage for life, families ruined… ran away. We have extradition policy… nothing happens. So Afghanistan and USA don’t have extradition policy yet… even if you agree for sake of argument Osama bin Laden did it, it is not justified killing of innocent human beings. More than three to five thousand Afghans were killed.
Then after couple of years goes to Iraq… weapons of mass destruction. And they go there…. After the attack they don’t find anything yet they are controlling Iraq.. what is the cause… what is the reason… and people in Iraq are more troubled, they were troubled by Saddam Hussain, he was not a good Muslim, he wasn’t a practicing Muslim, I’m not in favor of Saddam Hussain. But the trouble they are facing after America has come to Iraq is multiple times more. More people are being robbed, more people are being raped, the main purpose….. is what?.... is? Oil ….. MashaAllah….. It’s an open secret.
So I told the American Consulate General that time, that according to me number one terrorist in the world is George Bush. And….. I’m a person who keep of speaking very often, I had gone to Australia just couple of months after 9/11, it comes in the headlines in the news papers at that time December 2001,
“Dr. Zakir Naik calls himself a fundamentalist and says that George Bush is terrorist number one.”
I did not know of nay speaker on a public level… I don’t know may be… may be who has condemned George Bush as terrorist number one. Today, it is very common. I can name a hundred top personalities and we know our honorable Justice Hosbet, I didn’t know that even he considered… rightly he is an honest judge… and I agree with that. I don’t know when is the first time he said, I don’t want to compete with him, he’s more senior to me. I don’t know when is the first time he said that.
But now when we read records we come to know that the President of Venezuela, ‘Hugo Chavez’ he said, that ‘The biggest terrorist in the world is George bush’.
The President Elect of Bolivia, ‘Evo Morales’, he said that George Bush is a terrorist.
The famous singer and activist of America, Harry Bellefonte he said the biggest terrorist in the world is George Bush.
An MP in UK, an MP in UK by the name of George Galloway he said, the biggest terrorist in the world is George Bush. And he said, that ‘The blood that is there on the hands of George Bush and Tony Blair is much more than the bombers who have done bombing in London.” And when he was asked, he said, “It will be justified, George Galloway who’s an MP in UK he says, “It will be justified that if a suicide bomber goes and attacks and kills Tony Blair without injuring any other innocent human being. That suicide bomber will be justified.” Who said that? George Galloway.
We have Jyoti Basu, a few months back he said when George Bush came to India that number one terrorist is George Bush. Everyone says that but the India government wants to invite him. For what? So that we learn the art of terrorism?
Recently a couple of days back it was a news article in the newspapers that the Noble prize winner, Noble prize winner, Betty Williams she said, that she would love to kill George Bush’. She would love to kill George Bush.
Which I differ. After one of the talks in London which I gave on Jihad and Terrorism there was a youngster Muslim who said that, Allah hu Akbar, death to George Bush. There were many Non Muslims there and my full talk, the impact went down, so I told him, if you see the history of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saw), Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) he prayed to Almighty God, there were two Umar’s who were staunchly against Islam, he prayed to Almighty God that atleast let one of the Umar, get Hidaaya, they become Muslim so that they will be a help for Islam.
And we know the second Khalifa of Islam, Hadhrat Umar (ra) May Allah be pleased with him, he accepted Islam. So same way I pray to Almighty God that atleast Almighty God gives Hidaaya to George Bush, or atleast to one of them George Bush or Tony Blair. Imagine if they are so much staunch against Islam if they accept Islam what will happen?
I’m a Da’ee, that’s what I always do, try and convince him about the good of Islam. People tell me brother Zakir you travel throughout the world, don’t you have problems? Alhumdulillah, Summa Alhumdulillah….. Allah’s help. I know many of my colleagues who keep on traveling. They have had several problems and my appearance, the beard the cap and my coat, though I look like a joker, it’s a soft target. But with God’s grace with Allah’s grace Alhumdulillah I never had problems. I spend time many a times with these immigrations and police officers. I was there in New York two days before 9/11, I just left New York, I was there for two weeks Alhumdulillah, Summa Alhumdulillah. Good I left, if I’d been there during 9/11 may be I’d be implicated… possibly… I went to London immediately. And last time I was in USA, though I’ve been invited several times, because of my tight schedule, I was in 2003. I had gone to Los Angeles to receive an award. Immediately I was prepared that during immigration I’ll be interrogated, the way I look, I’m mentally prepared. They ask me why have you come here? I said to receive an award. Award for what? Do you belong to a charitable organization? What award are you getting? I said to serve humanity. Jesus Christ (pbuh) said, “Speak Ye the Truth and the Truth shall free you.” I speak the truth. That’s why I’ve got the award. And it went on the long conversation. Later I went to the customs and I purposely say I’ve come for an Islamic Conference. Islamic Conference? Go for checking.
They open my bag and they see my video cassette “Terrorism and Jihad” and on that cover there’s a pistol. So the custom officer says that do you believe in Jihad? I said yes I believe in Jihad, even Jesus Christ believed in Jihad, in striving and struggling. No no no… I mean… do you believe in fighting. I said you read your Bible, if you read the Bible the Bible speaks about fighting. If you read the
Book of Numbers, Chapter No. 31, Verse No. 1 to 19,
The Book of Exodus Chapter No. 22 Verse No. 18 to 20,
The Book of Exodus Chapter No. 32 Verse No. 27 to 28,
and Jesus Christ (pbuh) himself said in the Gospel of Luke, Chapter No. 22, Verse No. 36, that “Take ye the sword and go and fight”
So immediately most of the custom officers eight or ten gathered together and they started asking “Sir can we ask you one more question.” So I just told my host on the mobile that please don’t worry I’m stuck up here I’m just doing Da’wah.
I keep on traveling MashaAllah, I’d been to Australia to UK several times, by God’s grace time I did spend, not more than a couple of hours. I know many of my colleagues…. Were detained…. Many of my colleagues means my speaker… I’m not talking about my Bombay speakers. I’m talking about the international speakers who keep on traveling. They have been detained, they have been deported, Allah’s grace that so far I have not been detained, I haven’t been deported, maximum half and hour one hour Da’wah and I see to it that whenever I get an opportunity I grab it. But I see to it that I quote their scriptures. I follow the guidance of the Qur’an in Surah Ale Imran, Chapter No. 3, Verse No. 64 which says,
says in Surah Ali Imran Chapter 3, Verse 64,
“Ta`alaw 'Ilá Kalimatin Sawa'in Baynana Wa Baynakum”
“Come to common terms as between us and you”
So when we come to common terms most of the problems are solved. This talk what we are having today was supposed to be held more than a month back. I was supposed to be in London… that’s why this talk is delayed and when I landed on the 10th of August on Heathrow Airport and I receive a call from my wife… Zakir, where are you? I said why? No are you in the airport outside? What happened? No we just received information that there are some 21 Muslims arrested who were supposed to do bomb blast etc etc. But Alhumdulillah I had my own Camera Crew with me, we were 12 of us… all them cap, beard… God’s grace… we passed through very well. I had my talk in Birmingham, it was successful. Next day some times we go and do shooting… so next day we went to one of the Jewish graveyards and we were shooting. Shooting.. not shooting, we were recording… you know in our lingo we say shooting means recording on the video camera… just to get the stalk shots of the city and we spent a couple of hours bin the Jewish graveyard. Later on we went to one of the Church’s’ did the recording, shooting, then we went for breakfast and we came back to the hotel in the afternoon. Then we get a information the Police of Birmingham they are trying to track us down, may be some passerby went and complained, they were looking for seven or eight terrorist with cap and beard. Who are these people? They had the number plate and they knew it was a green car, so what they did they phoned the insurance company and they tried to find where we were and finally they located us in the hotel.
But luckily while doing inquiry they even happened to speak with the person who I had breakfast with and he happened to be a very famous politician, Muslim politician. So when the Chief of that area, of that police station spoke to him, that you know we are looking for these terrorist. He said what non sense you are talking. Do you know two months back I’d given you a DVD of a person by the name of Dr. Zakir Naik. He said yes. He’s the same person. Oh same person… problem solved. The passerby’s who had reported, you know beard is dangerous. Beard, cap, dangerous you have to be careful. But again God’s help, Allah’s help and I’m safely back here otherwise I wouldn’t have been here to give the talk.
We Muslim should not be afraid and we should speak the truth. But with Hikmah. We have to be careful.
Allah says in the Qur’an in Surah Nahl, Chapter No. 16, Verse No. 25,
“Ud`u 'Ila Sabili Rabbika Bil-Hikmah Wal Maw`izatil Hasanah Wa Jaadilhum Bilati Hiya 'Ahsan”
“Invite all to the way of thy lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and argue with them and reason with them in the ways that are best and most gracious.”
When we speak, we have to speak with Hikmah.
No we realize after seeing this scenario that who has the monopoly on Terrorism? And according to me Terrorism is a Monopoly of the politicians.
According to my understanding and survey, terrorism is a monopoly of the politicians, irrespective they may be politicians of USA of UK or India it is the monopoly of the politicians. We have to realize what is the cause of terrorism? If we want to abolish terrorism first you have to understand the root cause. I being a doctor we don’t believe in symptomatic treatment we believe in trying in finding out what is the cause and killing the germ, that’s a better treatment.
What is the cause of terrorism? The experts say that the cause of terrorism is ‘Injustice’. When injustice is done on a particular group of people, when wrong is done on the particular group of people they tend to retaliate and that is the only cause of terrorism. And when we realize that whether it be the 9/11 the destruction of the twin towers in New York. Whether it be the 7th July Bombing in London or the serial Bomb blast in 93 in Bombay or the recent Bomb blast on the 11th of July. Whether it be the thousand of people killed in Afghanistan in Iraq, in Gujarat, in Bosnia, whether it be in Palestine, in Lebanon. We find that behind them the main cause are the politicians.
I was wondering that when I landed in UK, that why were 21 young Muslims were arrested? The government said we were keeping a track on them for several months. Many people I met who knew these people who were arrested personally, they said impossible, they can’t be involved. What we realize that the people wait when should this news come out. At that time Israel was attacking Lebanon… thousand of people were killed, the Britishers were objecting, so then you have a diversion… 21 Muslims supposed to bomb the airline are arrested, it’s a bigger news so people forget about thousands of innocent people being killed in Lebanon.
Same thing in India, Kargil…. Any problem politicians…talk about Kargil, talk about the enemy Pakistan… huh…. Diversion… politics. Whether it be in USA, whether it be in UK, whether it be in India. The major cause are the politicians. We know that our country more than 60 years back they were ruled by the Britishers and they had a policy of divide and rule. More than 50 years back we got freedom from the Britishers, but unfortunately they have left, but they have left their policy behind. And our Indian politicians they have adopted this policy of Divide and rule. They adopt this policy of divide and rule for their vote bank.
From records we come to know that the country which has the maximum riots anywhere in the world, it is India. If not daily, atleast once a week we have communal riots. This great country of ours, so many great religions are there, maximum riots, communal riots. And the major cause, all most all directly or indirectly they are the politicians. For their vote bank, for their power, for their money, they engineer these things. Otherwise normally, I’ve met Non Muslims, its my job, its my profession, I’m a student of comparative religion, I keep on meeting different sorts of people, generally the common Indian, irrespective whether he is a Hindu or a Muslim they would love to live with each other harmoniously, they would love to live peacefully. We may have our differences, we don’t want to fight, but it is these politicians, it is these politicians who engineer hatred among different religions so that they could fill their vote bank. And you see all most all the riots that have taken place, indirectly or directly they are the cause.
We know that few years back there was a political gimmick, the Babri Masjid and Ram Janam Bhoomi issue. You know Babri Masjid and Ram Janam Bhoomi issue? In Ayodhya? I would like to know, how many of us Muslims and Hindu’s knew about Babri Masjid and Ram Janam Bhoomi before the politicians made it a gimmick. How many of us knew? I had never heard of this Babri Masjid. And when I ask the common Hindu he had never heard of this. Only after the politicians made it a political gimmick people knew about it.
And we know on the 6th of December 1992 they wanted to have a big procession, a big gathering at this site. The Supreme Court had explicitly said that no gathering anywhere close to the disputed site. A group of politicians they make it a political gimmick of Ram Janam Bhoomi issue and the Babri Masjid issue. They want to gather of the 6th of December, the ruling politicians know very well that they have the Supreme Court backing; they could have easily stopped the gathering, easily. But then they think, if I stop I may loose vote, so they let the gathering take place. The gathering takes place and then they say spontaneously the thousand of Kar Sevak gathered there. Spontaneously the Babri Masjid was destroyed, spontaneously. You know there was live recording on various satellite channels, we know that with Trishul’s and Lathi’s how can you get down a structure? Is it possible? No. they had planted explosives, with this pre planned act, they had planted the explosives, anyone can see. You don’t have to be a specialist of the military. You can see it with your eyes. There were explosives planted and that’s how the structure came down. Can the structure come down with lathi’s and Trishul’s? May be George Bush saw this, 6th December 1992 that’s how he had conducted the inside job of 11th September.
Time does not permit me to speak about the inside job, that requires a lecture by itself, inside job of 11th September, many Americans have spoken about that. May be he saw it and he got the idea. That lets conduct in New York also. Later on what happens? This emerges into riots. Throughout the country there were riots. It is the largest riot after partition in the whole country where tens and thousands of innocent human beings were killed, mainly Muslims. Who’s to blame? The innocent Indians they are instigated by the politicians, fight, kill the opposite religion people, instigated, innocent people they get instigated and they do the act.
We know that even in Bombay.. …one of th city that was maximum affected was Bombay. Even during partition the riots that took place in Bombay was the worst in the history of Bombay. Even during partition so many people were not killed as during the December 92 and January 93 riots. The police if they wanted they could have easily prevented the riot, very easy, with the backing of the reserve police, with the backing of the military easily they could have done it,, but they did not do it, most of them were silent spectators. Some were good they tried, but they were in a minority. Majority were silent spectators, some were party to it. I’m aware that even the police is controlled by the politicians. So the police wants to do something, the politicians come in between so the blame goes back to the politicians. Later on the government appoints a single judge commission to appease the minority. And they appointed Justice Shri Krishna. It was famously called as the Shri Krishna Commission and we know that Justice Shri Krishna he was and is a devout and a practicing Hindu, but at the same time he an upright and honest judge, just like how we have Justice Suresh here. An honest and an upright Judge. The verdict he gave it did not go down the throat of the Government, it takes a few years and he had analyzed the full cases of the riots.
He spoke with the politicians, with the police, individually he visited 26 police stations, analyzed the records, spoke with the police officers, junior and senior, spoke with the victims spoke with the media and after a great deal of research, he presented… we have this ‘Damning Verdict’ on Shri Krishna Commission. He even gave suggestions how can we prevent these riots. But you know it takes time, by the time this happened the government says bygones are bygones, because they know if they implement the report they are afraid that they will loose the vote bank. At that time to appease the minority they appointed the commission. How many commissions? I don’t know. How many? I don’t know.. how many commissions have been implemented, I think Justice Suresh can tell? How many commissions that they’ve appointed and have really been implemented in India? How many? So here we know it is their delaying tactics.
The innocent Indians specially the Muslim vicitims, we have faith in the Judiciary System of India, if the politician betray us, if our other citizen, fellow members betray us, if the police betrays us in this country we have yet faith in the judiciary system. And we know that finally most of the innocent people, whether they are arrested etc, they are finally released. But the damage done to them it cannot be undone.
Later on we come to know after a couple of months on 12th of March 1993 there was a series of 13 Bomb Blast in Bombay, in which more than 250 innocent citizens of Bombay were killed, more than 250 innocent human beings were killed and more than 700 human beings were injured. The opposition said, Oh…planned…everything… Justice Shri Krishna said, it was not meticulously planned, it was retaliation. More than one and a half thousand innocent Muslims killed in riots in Bombay, more than one and a half thousand innocent Muslims during the Bombay riots of December 92 and January 93 were killed, it was a retaliation and the authorities and the police said it was done by Muslim Underworld with the help of some others, that’s how the Bomb blast took place. And they say, all of them agreed, even the police commissioner they agreed that it was retaliation to what had happened in Bombay.
We know that immediately after the riots of December 92 and January 93, it was difficult for the Muslims to walk on the streets. It was difficult for him to travel in the train, travel in the bus, to work in a Non Muslim area, they were looked down upon, they were ridiculed. Immediately after 12th March 93 Bomb blast the whole scenario changes. Most of the Muslims they know that killing innocent people is prohibited, yet they had a soft corner for these people who did this bomb blast, they were happy internally.
In Islam two wrong don’t make a right. Islam condemns this act. Killing innocent human being is to be condemned. You cannot kill innocent human being if somebody else has done injustice to you. You can’t kill a third person even if he belongs to the same community. Islam prohibits that. Whoever did it, whether Muslims or Non Muslims, whoever killed more than 250 innocent human beings on 12th March 1993, Islam condemns it. Most of the Muslims knew that killing innocent people is Haraam, it is prohibited, yet they were internally happy. But you cannot use wrong means to reach a right goal. You cannot. Islam does not permit that you use a wrong method to reach a right goal, there cannot be any justification. We realize that Muslims are harassed, they were tortured, they were killed, but you can’t justify the killing of innocent human beings. Imagine the family of those more than 250 innocent human beings when they come to know that the Muslims have killed us they will think that what kind of religion is this? What wrong did they do? Did they harass you? The person who has harassed you if you catch him and put him to trail and he is a culprit and you punish him no problem. All religions give you permission. The innocent people killed on the street, what wrong did they do to you? Imagine, he will become a permanent enemy of Islam. Islam does not justify the killing of any innocent human being, it is to be condemned.
When we realize the chain of sequence of events, who is to be blamed? We come to know that prevention is better than cure. Who is to be blamed? When we see the sequence of events we come to know that if the opposition politicians, the politicians from the opposition party if they would not have used Babri Masjid and Ram Janam Bhoomi issue as a political plank the Bombay bomb blast in 93 wouldn’t have taken place. Later on the politician in power they could have easily prevented the gathering, the could have easily prevented the destruction of the Babri Masjid, easily, they had the Supreme Court verdict, they had the military, they had the police, but they were afraid, that if we do it we would loose our vote bank so they let the destruction take place. Second people responsible are the politicians in power.
Third people, the innocent Indians they are instigated against the minority and they’re involved in killing of thousand of innocent Muslims. They are too responsible. But they are innocent people.
Fourth people responsible is, the police. The police could have easily prevented the riots in Bombay or anywhere in India, easily. The normal civilians, we aren’t military trained, we cannot fight with the police, its easy. It’s very easy for the police of any city specially Bombay to prevent the riots, very easy…. Preventing terrorist attacks is difficult; I come to it later on. But riots is very easy, easy. But they didn’t do it. Some were afraid, there were a few who went out of the way and helped the innocent victims, but the majority were silent spectators. Some were even party to it. Some who were silent spectator, they were afraid that if we went against the politicians we would have been transferred. They too are to be blamed. Fourth people to be blamed are the police.
Fifth, last, but not the least the people who committed these bomb blast. Islam does not give permission to use wrong means to reach the right goal. All five categories are to be equally blamed. If you want to stop terrorist attacks go to the root cause, stop the injustice, stop the wrong done to a particular group of people and terrorism will stop.
It is difficult for the police to stop the bomb blast. We know, we understand, its not easy, its difficult, but to stop the riots..very easy. Same case, you see most of the riots that took place in India they have the same sequence, same people are involved, the details may differ. Same group of people are involved.
We have the other example of the Gujarat Massacre that started on 27th of February 2002 and went on till March 2002, it was followed after the burning of the single coach of the Sabarmati Express at Godhra on the 26th of February 2002.
We know very well, it is nothing hidden, its an open secret that this train, the bogies that was burnt, according to forensic reports, according to circumstantial evidence, it says that the coach was burnt from inside. There are several evidences, but every thing was planned, it was pre planned. Muslims were instigated, there was a gathering, but they didn’t kill. They didn’t kill the innocent people, they say that 59 Kar Sevaks were killed, yet it is to be doubted. Yes there may be a few people that may have been killed. Many people who were thought to be killed later on were found alive. So then they kept on changing their statement. So it was an inside job.
Babri Masjid – inside job, 9/11 – inside job, Godhra – inside job. Main people to blamed they are the politicians. Then immediately next day from 27th of February 2002, no retaliation, pre planned. It was a state supervised massacre of the innocent Muslims in Gujarat. Nothing spontaneous, all pre planned. And innocent citizens of Gujarat they were instigated, they were given money, you can see evidence to kill thousands of innocent Muslims. According to the state of Gujarat 793 Muslims were killed and 253 Hindu’s were killed. But according to several Human Rights organizations they said approximately two to two and a half thousand innocent human beings were killed, all most all of them they were Muslims. Other report says that more than 5000 innocent Muslims were killed. There were thousands of Muslim women who were raped. There were tens and thousands of Muslims who were asked to leave the house. Their houses were looted, they were burnt. There were tens and thousands of Muslims whose places of business they were burnt, they were completely destroyed. The people killed in Gujarat massacre is far more than number than the 9/11. the loss of the people of Gujarat if you add it, it is much more than the loss than took place on 9/11, yet according to George Bush, the people who did Gujarat Massacre they aren’t terrorist. Only if you harm the Americans then there’s a problem.
We know that there are tons of evidence, tons of evidence in form of literature, newspaper, booklets, we have the communism combat, you have video tapes, VCDs, DVDs, actual recordings of the culprits, the people responsible, yet, no action taken. Even the Judiciary system, I’m sorry to say… in Gujarat failed. I think they were pressurized by the politicians, so much so that the supreme court of India had to pass a remark against the High court of Gujarat… that they were biased and the trials weren’t correct.
I feel it was mainly the politicians. The Supreme Court of India they passed a judgment against the High court of Gujarat that what verdict they gave was wrong. And I feel may be it was the politicians who may have used their power. And imagine what we find after a couple of months we have the Akshardham Temple Massacre. Two people were caught, they were killed, they are said to be Muslims and the authorities said that these people killed so many people in the temple in revenge, in retaliation. And they said that all these was nothing but retaliation. Islam does not justify that. They may have a logic… these people who did the attack or the people who retaliated in other ways… they have a logic, they say that thousands of our family members were killed in front of our eyes, our mothers, our sisters have been raped in front of us, we have been looted. We know the person responsible he’s our neighbor, the person down the street, we meet him regularly but when we see him, it reminds us of the torture. When they go to the law, the law does not support, so they take the law in their hand. I’m not justifying this act. Islam doesn’t permit you that take the law in the hand and then kill other innocent human beings. Islam does not justify that. They have a justification, they say, our mothers have been raped, we know the culprit, they are in front of us, no one is taking action… so they take the law in their hand. If you really find the culprit and book him and if he is caught, if you can do that and punish him, Islam justifies. You cant kill any other human being. Islam does not justify that. You cannot use a wrong mean to come at the right goal. However much you have sympathy for them, but the point to be noted, Islamically it is wrong. Its not justified… killing innocent human being….. imagine the hundreds of innocent human beings killed by these people in retaliation they in turn become enemies of Islam. What wrong have they done. It is the same thing, the earlier people killed innocent Muslims, now you kill innocent Hindu’s. its not justified in Islam. If you can catch the culprit, book him, punish him, fine. But not any innocent human being.
Later one…. On the 11th of July we have in this year 2006, we have a series of Bomb blasts in the train. Seven bomb blast in a span of 11 minutes in which more than 200 innocent human beings were killed. More than 800 were injured. The police and the authorities, they say this too was in retaliation to the thousands of Muslims killed in Gujarat. The authorities say, it is the hand of the LET, Lashkar-e-Taiba.
If you look at the sequence of events… could this have been prevented? Easily! Who’s responsible? Number one, those politicians who have planned the burning of the coach in the Sabarmati Express at Godhra. They are responsible.
Number two, the people at the centre, at the central government, they could have stopped it, but they belonged to the same party, the didn’t do anything.
Number three, the innocent citizens of Gujarat they were instigated against the Muslims and they fell in the trap, they too are responsible.
Number four, the police of Gujarat could have easily prevented, they didn’t do it, they are responsible. And we know from records that most of the places it was done under the supervision of the police. If see the commission report, they too are responsible.
Number five the judiciary system of Gujarat. They didn’t take action.
Number six, the people who retaliated in the wrong way. The people who did the bomb blast, Islam does not justify that, they too are equally responsible. All six categories of people are equally responsible. But if we can prevent the first category, the first few categories surely you will not have these terrorist attacks.
And we know that in the past one month thousands of Muslims have been harassed, mainly by the police. The police says it is mainly the Muslims who have done it. It is the hand of LeT, Lashkar-e-Taiba. I say if you can really identify them catch the people who are involved, we have no objection. But you can’t harass thousands of innocent Muslims. Hundreds of them were rounded up, hundreds of Muslims they were detained for days and weeks together. As Justice Suresh said that hundreds of them they had been rounded up even their family was not informed, imagine… and the thousands of innocent family members they too have been harassed.
We know about 22 to 25 so far have been officially arrested, all of them 100% none of them, not a single arrested case is directly linked with the train bomb blast of Bombay. All of them indirectly related to some other event. If you really catch the culprit, if you have proof we have no objection, but at random picking up the Muslims, what signals are you sending? We know that about more than 300 innocent people were rounded up in Malwani, more than 300, for what? For interrogation. Any logical person will tell you, that for interrogation minimum you at least require 3 or 4 policemen. If you want to do a proper interrogation. One policeman to threaten, one to have a soft approach, one to note down, may be one to observe. Atleast three, if not four, minimum three, for a proper interrogation. It takes minimum one or two hours. People, experts says four five hours, minimum atleast one or two hours. How many interrogation can you do? What is the man power of Malwani police station? What is the man power? How many can they do in a day? Ten? Twenty? Thirty? Fourty? How many? How many? What’s the man power? What’s the force? Maximum hundred, if you let it go, they round up more than 300 people keep them waiting for the full day, then they take their telephone number and address and leave them. What signals are you sending?
It is my request that the police should take the Muslims in confidence.
Recently after the bomb blast there was a programme organized by the non Muslim, how we have Muslims, are here on terrorism, similar there was a programme organized by the Non Muslims on similar topic. Topic was different but the issue was the same… by the Non Muslims, and the organizers had invited two ex senior police officials from Bombay…. Ex… one of them comes and blames the Madrasa’s of Pakistan, the reason for terrorist attacks here, second one comes and blames the Madrasa’s of India. In the speech you tell them that they should have computers, English, no problem, I’m with you, but to say that the Indian Madrasa’s are directly or indirectly even remotely associated with any form of terrorism in India is nothing but a blatant lie.
Unfortunately for that police officer there was one of the senior advocates in the audience, after the talk he went and told him, that can you give my even a single white paper, single proof that any Madrasa in India has been proven to be associated with any terrorist act? He said, I don’t know. Imagine what statement is this senior police officer giving to the Non Muslims. What message are you sending? The Hindu’s in turn will be against the Madrasa’s, so making such irresponsible statements by senior police officers, see I’m being careful, I’m not naming, why? Because I’m a responsible citizen… what signals are you sending? I don’t know of any Madrasa in India…. See they are the centre of learning, fine we may disagree… we may want English there, we may want modernization, I speak with the people of Madrasa, I may have differences, have more education… fine….. have English, have computers, we agree, but to say that they are involved in terrorist activities indirectly or directly even remotely is nothing but a blatant lie. So what is happening? What message are you giving?
We know that hundreds of innocent Muslims were detained, many were arrested…. The police goes and does a search in the house, then they find some books on Jihad…. Proof….. proof… that involved in terrorist attacks. The Bombay media reported that the same books are being sold in the book stalls of Mohammad Ali Road for several years, if that was the case, why weren’t these book stalls closed down? Same books…. Jihad. I’d like to tell that do you know the Qur’an too speaks about Jihad and all most all, every Muslim house has the Qur’an, do you mean to say that you are going to arrest all the Muslims of Bombay? What signals are you sending?
I being a student of Comparative religion I would like to say that if you read the Mahabharata there are more verses of killing in Mahabharata than the Qur’an, if you have a competition… Mahabharata has more verses of killing people… than compared to the Qur’an. Bhagavad Gita is nothing but a guidance given by Shri Krishan to Arjun. Arjun says, how can I fight against my own cousins? If you read Bhagavad Gita, Chapter No. 1, Verse no. 43, 44, 45, 46, he puts his arms on the battlefield and says I would prefer dying unarmed rather than fighting my cousins. Immediately Bhagavad Gita, Chapter No. 2, Verse No. 2, Shri Krishan, he says Arjun how could you be impotent and he continues… time doesn’t permit me… you can see my video tape. It says that it is the duty of the Kshatriya to fight.
When we see in context, I being a student of comparative religion I agree with all the verse of fighting in Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata because I know the context, it’s a fight between, justice and injustice. It’s a fight between truth and falsehood. And what Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata says that if you have to fight against falsehood, against injustice, even if it be your cousins no problem, family members, fight them. We are with it. That is what the Qur’an says. What my request is that even the police should know the religious teachings of the different citizens of India.
And I always take opportunity and in the past several years I’ve spoken to several non Muslim police officers, senior police officers, in Bombay, in Bangalore, in various cities of India. I was even called a couple of years back to the National Police Academy in Hyderabad, where I addressed more than a hundred IPS Officers, high ranking… commissioners of police, DIG, IG, DG, the Director General of the National Academy was there and when I spoke they were shocked. Most of the information I gave, they were shocked. You should no what is the teachings of different religion. Imagine if I pick of these verses of Mahabharata and Bhagavad Gita and quote out of context, surely we can get riots here. We have to understand different religions. And by God’s grace, Alhumdulillah, I’ve spoken to police and military internationally, in UK, in USA, in Bahrain, in Saudi Arabia, in UAE… Alhumdulillah, and I love interacting specially with the non Muslim police, giving them the right picture of Islam, unfortunately they get the information of Islam from the international media.
I’ll come to the media in the ending, so what we should say, that we should have an understanding, I’ve been told by several advocates and as Justice Suresh also said that hundred of Muslims were picked up, they were detained, some of them mentally tortured, some of the them physically tortured… the advocates told me that the clients, as justice Suresh said that they were tortured, some of them were even made to sign on paper which they didn’t agree, even on blank papers if you know who the culprits are select a few, catch them, if proven, if they have done it, they should be punished, we aren’t against it. But to catch thousands of innocent Muslims… what signals are you sending? Imagine to catch ten terrorist you interrogate and harass a thousand innocent Muslims, irrespective whether you catch, those ten terrorist or not surely you are making hundred new terrorist.
Many Non Muslim senior police officers in different parts, in different cities of India and one particular in Bombay, he told me Zakir Bhai, Dr. Zakir Naik, I will only be happy if you give talk in Hindi and Urdu, your talk should be heard by the masses, I didn’t speak, recently a couple of years back I started speaking. Many senior Non Muslim police officers in different parts of India, they tell me, they know that by God’s grace, 10,000 , 50,000 , 100,000 people come for my talks and when I went to Kashmir, because I was the official guest, I met the Minister, Power Minister, Chief Minister, but at that time the governor of Kashmir, Saxena, he wanted to meet me, my schedule was tight, non Muslim, I took out time, he wanted lunch, dinner, no time… I went for breakfast. Saxena the governor of Kashmir, he happened to be an ex military man, I forgot his post… some colonel or major or high post he was. And we discussed, he was caring for the people of Kashmir. Later on he comes to Maharashtra, he comes to Bombay, he wants to meet me, he calls me to the Raj Bhawan, the governors house, I go and meet there. He told Dr. Zakir Naik… you know the impact that you had in Kashmir, the people that follow you, we want you to come again, we want you to come on the television of Kashmir, we want you to come on the radio. But what my question is… that do you think my talk will be effective, I know that there is not a single verse in the Qur’an which justifies the killing of innocent human beings, there is not a single saying, a Hadeeth of the Prophet that you can kill innocent human being even if they belong to the same community that has done injustice to you… I know that…. I can speak…but imagine of thousand of innocent Muslims are being harassed… the police they tell us that most probably it’s a hand of the LeT, Lashkar-e-Toiba, for sake of argument… I agree with it…and the police tells us that the local hand should be involved, otherwise the bomb blast can’t take place. I agree with it… imagine the Lashkar-e-Toiba, if they are involved, if you interrogate a thousand innocent human beings, they’ll get ready made recruits, ready made, you torture them…….. ready made recruits. Isn’t the police helping the Lashkar-e-Toiba? I’m sorry please don’t get me wrong… I don’t want them to misunderstand me, otherwise they’ll come to arrest me also.
What signals are you sending? Imagine if I agree with you that your theory is correct that Lashkar-e-Toiba is involved and they want local hands, you should get the Muslims in confidence. You cant round up a thousand innocent Muslims. We know, we understand, that getting the culprits is very difficult, specially because the Bomb Blast was done with precision, with accuracy, it was a mastermind…. According to the police… we know it is difficult, we understand your case, but that doesn’t mean in the name of interrogation you pick up a few innocent people, we can understand, but thousands? What message are you sending? Do you think my lecture will be effective? May be I will be able to convince two three percent, five percent, not more than that, so we have to solve the problem, what is the root problem and the police should get the confidence of the citizens. If that is not there how will they by able to stop terrorism? And if you want respect, you should give respect.
There were good policemen also, many of my friends who are advocates and lawyers, they told me that there were good policeman who helped the people when they were harassed, some of the policeman had a very good heart, they helped them, they supported them, but generally, oh you have a beard, why do you have a beard, oh you have trouser above the ankle, why do you keep it. Wearing a cap… as though it is mentioned in their rule book… a terrorist should have a beard, should have trouser above the ankle and a cap, then I would be number one terrorist. Even I have my trouser above the ankle, I’m wearing a cap and I have a beard. What signals are you sending?
There should be a proper training, a proper understanding of the religion of Islam, that’s what William… when he advised he told to the US government that you don’t know Islam… George Bush doesn’t know Islam at all. It was the article that came yesterday in Mid-Day, he doesn’t know. Unless you don’t understand, how are you going to solve the problem? I don’t want the police to misunderstand me. When I tell the Muslims that killing innocent people is wrong, though many Muslims disagree with me… Qur’an condemns it… our Prophet condemned it…. Killing any innocent human being you cant justify it. I have to speak the truth… at the same time I even have to speak the truth to the police force. I hope they understand the situation. And according to Julio Ribeiro, he writes and article in Hindustan Times, I think it was 9th of September, he says that, “More the unnecessary arrests that are made to get a breakthrough becomes more difficult proportionately” the more unnecessary people you arrest the chances you’ll get at the real culprit it will be more difficult. On the 2nd of September 2006, there was a good gesture by the Police Commissioner of Bombay, A.N. Roy. He wrote a personal letter to a couple of hundred Muslim readers saying that the investigation is unbiased we aren’t harassing the Muslims…. I too receive one of these letters. And he said that if there is any query, any questions, you can come and sit across the table, we can talk, it’s a good gesture. The letter came recently, just may be a week back. I only hope it is not a theoretical exercise of public relations. If it’s practically implemented that innocent Muslims should not be harassed, if you really want to get the confidence you see to it that you get the confidence of the Muslims and then only you will be really able to catch the culprits. And if you get the culprits, whoever they are, surely they have to be punished. We know the authorities they tell us that why majority Muslims have been picked up. The argument given was that when we analyze that in Punjab terrorism, majority people arrested they were Sikh. In ULFA, in Assam, majority were? Hindus. In Tamil Nadu, LTTE they were Hindu’s. So but natural in Bombay, you know because we think it’s linked with Pakistan, Kashmir, it will be Muslims. I agree with you for sake of argument, if a terrorist attack is done in Punjab, the majority people living in Punjab are Sikh, so majority Sikh’s are arrested it is logical. In Assam majority are Hindu’s, so Hindu’s are arrested its logical. In Tamil Nadu majority people living are Hindu’s, so Hindu’s are arrested, it’s logical. In Bombay, are the majority people living Muslims? The Muslims are in minority. So why are they being picked up in majority? If you think its an act of Kashmiri Militant, if you have got records, we have got no doubt with that, but do you mean to say that LTTE cant come to Bombay? Do you mean to say ULFA cant come to Bombay? Do you mean to say Sikh terrorist can’t come to Bombay? You cannot say 100% this act has been done by Muslims, you can say high possibilities and if you show proof we are with you.
What we are trying to tell you that identify the people who are responsible, catch them and punish them, but not thousands of people, innocent Muslims being rounded up.
We know there are several records… just a couple of months back according to the ATS of Maharashtra 16 members were arrested from a hardcore Hindu organization. They were involved in 3 Bomb blast in Mosque. Mohammadi Mosque in Parbhani. One of the mosques in Jalna. One in Pona, three.
And recently on 6th of April in one place by mistake a bomb detonates, by mistake. While they were making a bomb it exploded. It killed four people and 11 were injured…. When inquiries were made many people belonged to the same hardcore Hindu organization and they found there that their plan were that to attack the mosque in the guise of Sikh. You know this took place in Nanded. Sikh.. why? Because there was a rift going on between the Muslims and Sikh. A Sikh girl married a Muslim boy.. so there was tension, so they wanted to take advantage. So they wanted to do an act in the guise of Sikh. There are cases we know that Hindu’s have attacked wearing caps and beards. So you cant say hundred percent Muslims are involved, may be high possibilities, I’m not saying no… recently a few days back on Friday, 8th of September, four bomb blast took place in Malegaon, one outside one of the Mosques. One outside a graveyard in which 35 innocent Muslims were killed and more than 100 innocent Muslims were injured. Again prime suspect LeT. Can be, but not prime… imagine… it is a game plan…it’s a..you know name game… if you go to America… its Al Qaeda.. here it is LeT. According to an article that came in DNA on the 6th of September, a person by the name of Joseph he writes, that the foreign experts they tell that if you involve yourself too much in the blame game you loose focus and the main culprits are never caught. You do a proper investigation, if really they are caught, they have to be punished irrespective whether the terrorist are Muslims or non Muslims. Whether they belong to Kashmir, whether to Pakistan, whether ULFA, whether LTTE, if they are proved to be involved in the act, they should be punished. I’m not here to support any terrorist act.. not at all, but if you want to get to the bottom of it, you should know that this should be done meticulously. We should take the citizen in confidence.
One of the other cause is the media, mainly that media which is controlled by the politicians. We have to be careful of this and this media they can convert black to white, day to night, hero into a villain, villain into a hero and we see that very often, if you see my tapes, I’ve given various such examples, but in India its fortunate, that the more popular media is not controlled by the politicians and we find that this media really gave the true picture whether be it Gujarat riots, the Bombay riots in 93 or even today…. The innocent Muslims are being harassed. The media be it the newspaper, the news channels they have really given a true picture… about what’s happening… not hundred percent, some times they get involved in news which is sensational, so when they get the news.. without checking up they give it. If sensational… they give it… but as a whole we have to agree they media has been honest,
I’m talking about the non Muslim media, I’m not talking about the Muslim media, and here we find that they were honest and they projected the real picture, but what we have to be careful is of the media which is controlled by the politicians. And as far as the judiciary system is concerned in India… the innocent citizen of India, specially the Muslim victims we have faith in the Indian judiciary system, though some people say that some are corrupt, there are black sheep’s in the community, but as a whole we know most of the judges, they are upright and they are honest. We only hope that these people are not influenced by the politicians. So far I know most of the judges, they don’t care much for the politicians. If once the politicians get hold of the judiciary system, then God save this country. Yet we have faith in the judiciary system……….. and to conclude we have to realize that since we know that the cause of terrorism is injustice. The cause of terrorism is wrong doing to a particular group of people. This thing should be stopped. How can we stop? As I mentioned…
Number one, the politicians, they should be honest, they should be just. They should not go for the vote bank and do things which are wrong. Once they are honest and are just, irrespective they loose their seat, you see to it that terrorism will stop.
Point number two… the innocent Indian citizens, they should not be instigated by the politicians and do wrong things and kill other innocent human beings.
Point number three… the Police, they should be upright, they should be just. If someone is being harmed, they should see to it that he is protected, they should not be a ploy of the politicians… I know there are times that they can be transferred, but if every police men in India is honest the new policemen who is transferred will also be honest so what will the politician do? If hundred percent of the policeman, I’m not blaming all of them, please don’t get me wrong… I know most of them… honest they want to do but because they are under the pressure of the politicians they are afraid they will be transferred, they’ll be harassed. But If all the policemen get together and say let all of us be honest, if they transfer you the new person coming will also be honest. So there it self most of this trouble of injustice will stop.
And last but not the least, people cannot take the law in their hand. They cannot kill other innocent human being even if they belong to the same community who has done injustice on you.
If we take this and we see to it that injustice is stopped then surely India will be a very good country. It is estimated that in the next…by 2020.. India would be a super power if all the Hindus and Muslims if we live together, if we love each other, harmoniously, we may have our differences, the differences will be there… we live with our differences, but we love each other and we live peacefully and harmoniously again India will be a super power.
And Mahatma Gandhi, he said, that “If India has to improve it should be ruled by a dictator as honest and as upright as Hadhrat Umar (may Allah be pleased with him).
Mahatma Gandhi, the father of our nation, he advised, the best thing India can do is have a dictator like Hadhrat Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) (ra). He was honest person, when it came for justice he did not see whether it is a Muslim or a Non Muslim… for justice he gave justice, therefore he got the title Al Farooq, the person who differentiated truth from falsehood.
I started my talk by quoting a verse of the Qur’an from Surah Isra, Chapter No. 17, Verse No. 81 which says,
Wa Qul Jaa’a al Haqq Wa Zahaq Al Baatil. Innal Baatil Kaana Zahuqa.
“When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood is by its nature bound to perish”
I would like to end my talk by giving the quotation of Dr. Adam Pearson, who said, that
‘People who worry that one day nuclear weaponry will fall in the hands of the Arabs, they fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has already been dropped, it fell the day Prophet MUHAMMED (pbuh) was born’.
Wa Aakhiru Da’wana Anil Hamdu Lillahi Rabbill Aalameen.
Question & Answer Session
(Duration – 28 minutes)
Dr. Mohammad Naik: JazakAllah, thank you for your appreciation of the talk. We wonder how awesome and corrective would be the question and answer session.
We start the question and answer session quickly. May I point the rules. Your question should be on the topic, it should be brief and to the point and only one question at a time may be asked. Five microphones have been provided in the auditorium. One on my left for the gents, one on my right for the gents, one in the rear for the ladies, on the first floor balcony one more microphone number four for the gents. Those who would like to ask questions are kindly requested to line at one of the mikes to put forward your question. Yes the brother here can put forward his question, microphone number two. Yes brother, we would request you to ask quickly and briefly so we can cover more in the less time we have, yes brother.
Questioner: As Salaamu Alaikum Dr. Zakir Naik, my name is Mohammad Arafaat, I’m a student. You said in your talk two wrongs does not make a right. A few months….
Dr. Zakir Naik: We’ll allow Non Muslims the first preference please. So any Non Muslim in the queue they are most welcome. There is always a policy in our organization that we give first preference to our guests. If there’s any Non Muslim who would like to ask questions they are most welcome. Any Non Muslim? The brothers and sisters they are most welcome.. the time is limited.. so any Non Muslim who would like to ask a question they would be given the first chance. Any Non Muslim…. Yes brother. Your most welcome.
Questioner: Mera Naam Shaam Hai… Shaam Sonar. Mein Marathi Mahanagar Paper Mein Kaam Karta Hoon. Patrakaar Hoon. Aap Ki Baaton Se Matlab aaa Mere Paas Shabd Nahi Hai Kya Bolu… Lekin Yeh Mujhe Lagta Hai… Ki Bharat Mein Hindu Aur Muslim Ek Hone Ke Liye Kuch Na Kuch Hona Chahiye Aisa Mujhe Lagta Hai, Mein Karta Aaya Hoon 10 – 12 Saal Se. Lekin Aap Ke Mooh se Mein Yeh Sunna Chahta Hoon Ki Bharat Mein Baste Hain… Main To Chalisgaon Is Gaon Mein Rehta Tha, Mumbai Mein Rozi Roti Ke Liye Aaya Hoon. Basti Basti Mein Jo Hindu Aur Muslim Hain Inke Dil Mein Agar Ghalat Fehmi Hain, Aur Who Hain Bhi, Sahi Mayne Mein Kuch Had Tak Hai, Toh Who Door Karne Ke Liye Aap Ki Kya Sujhav Hai Ke Hindu Aur Muslim Dono Community Ke Log Kaise Ikhatte Aa Sakte Hain?
[Translation: My name is Shaam.. Shaam Sonar. I work with a Marathi Mahanagar Newspaper. I’m a journalist. After hearing your talk… I don’t have words… But I think that in India something should be done in order to bring the Hindu’s and Muslim’s together.. this is what I think, and even I’m trying this from last 10 -12 years. But I want to hear from you that in India….. I use to live in a village called Chalisgaon, I came to Mumbai for livelihood. If there is a misconception in the hearts of the Hindu’s and Muslim’s living in India…. And they [misconceptions] are there… in reality to a certain extent they are there…. So what is your opinion on clearing these misconceptions… and how to bring the Hindu and Muslim community together?]
Dr. Zakir Naik: Brother has asked a very good question. That was is the suggestion from me that how can we get the Hindu’s and Muslims on a common platform, how can we come together? The reply to this is I’ve given a talk on Similarities Between Hinduism and Islam. I’ve given that talk in Bombay, I’ve given that talk in Chennai, I’ve given in other parts of India and we find there that tens of thousands have attended… in Bombay about 20,000… in Chennai a similar number and other parts of India and many Non Muslims have attended, many Hindu’s have attended, thousands of them and many of them told me that Brother Zakir, there was a person, just a comment that what I did not know about Hinduism in the past 40 years of my life I’ve learnt in the past four hours.
I follow the guidance of the Qur’an from Surah Ale Imran, Chapter 3, Verse 64 which says,
“Ta`alaw 'Ilá Kalimatin Sawa'in Baynana Wa Baynakum”
“Come to common terms as between as and you.”
Which is the first term?
“Allah Na Buda Illallaah”
“That we worship none but one God”.
What we realize that… I don’t believe in interfaith dialogue which says that Hinduism is the same, Islam is the same, Christianity is the same, this is just a gimmick. If I ask the Hindu Pandit, will you become a Muslim, he will say No. If I ask the Muslim will you become a Christian he’d say No, if I ask the Priest will you become a Hindu he’ll say No. So what is same? Its not same. We have to agree that there are differences, but there are similarities also. Let us agree atleast to follow the commonalities. What is different keep it aside. So what I say.. that take all the religious scriptures, whether it be the Bhagavad Gita, whether it be the Veda, the Upanishad, the Bible, the Qur’an atleast what is common… what is different keep it aside, we can discuss some other time. But atleast what is common let us agree to follow it. And I’ve given a talk and I’ve showed so many similarities.. so many. So you can refer to my video cassette and what happens many of them are not aware. The Muslims are not aware of their religion, similarly the Hindu’s are not aware of their religion. Many of the Muslim objected, Similarities Between Islam and Hinduism, impossible, so many of the people came to the talk to attack.. that Abhi Hum Bolenge… what Non sense … Hindu and Muslim same? Ho Hi Nahi Sakta..but when they heard the talk they were shocked. Those who came to attack they agreed with the talk. Similarly many Hindu’s came.
So what we realize that what is common we should follow and number one is,
“Allah Na Buda Illallaah”
“That we worship none but one God”.
That’s the most common thing… and which you can give quotations and we can give quotations from the Vedas, from the Bhagavad Gita.
It is mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter No. 6, Section No. 2, Verse No. 1,
“God is only one without a second.”
It’s mentioned in Shvetashvatara Upanishad, Chapter No. 6, Verse No. 9,
“Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah.”
“Of Him there are no lord, he has got no parents”
These are Sanskrit quotations, that means Almighty god has got no parents, he has got no lord.
Furthermore of we analyze It is mentioned in the Shvetashvatara Upanishad, Chapter No. 4, Verse No. 19,
“Na Tasya Pratima Asti”
“Of that God there are no images.”
There is no Pratima, there is no photograph, there is no idol, there is no image.
Same thing in Yajurveda Chapter No. 32, Verse No. 3,
“Na Tasya Pratima Asti”
“Of that God there are no images.”
So if you go back to your Vedas and your religious scriptures, it speaks about one God. So people many a times are not aware of their scriptures.
And when the question.. just a couple of days back I’d given an interview to Star News. They asked me Brother Zakir what is your view regarding Vande Mataram? Can the Muslim say or not? I said what do the Muslims say, I’ll come to it afterwards, I’ll first tell you what do the Hindu scriptures say. He was shocked... what do I mean by that. I said if any one who is a scholar of the Vedas. The Vedas agree that God has got no Pratima, so when you say “Vande Mataram”, that this country is my mother and you call it God, a person who’s a scholar, I’m not talking about the normal people who don’t know about the scriptures. But you ask a scholar, he will say Vande Mataram goes against the Vedas. Because Vande Mataram in no less than three places it says, “I bow down to thee”, “I worship thee”. If you see about the Arya Samaj, and you see the various top scholars, they think according to the Vedas idol worship is not permitted. There is a verse in Bhagawat Gita, Chapter No.7, Verse 20, which says that you should not do idol worship. So here when you go back to your scriptures, unfortunately they believe in the form of pantheism. So even according to the Vedas, if you are a good scholar, this song, “Vande Mataram” that “I bow down” and “I worship thee” as I quoted in Sanskrit about Upanishad, it’s against it..
Even in Islam, there are 12 lines in this song which are objectionable. Three times its said “Vande Mataram” which means “I bow down to thee”. Once it says that “this country is my mother”, once it says “I will kiss the feet”. Once it says about the divine things, about the smile, talking about the divinity, it calls it Laxmi, it calls it Durga, all these things are objectionable. We Muslims we love this country but we will not bow down to anyone but to Almighty God. Even our mother… even our mother who has borne in the womb for 9 months, we love her we respect her, but we will not bow down to our mother, to our own mother. The number one human being whom we love and respect in the world after Allah (swt) it is Muhammad (saw), we will not even bow down to our Prophet, Prophet Muhammad (saw).
Is it required that we should sing this song “Vande Mataram”? It is a political gimmick. Politicians, they thought they will get the vote bank. They even made a gimmick on the date. You know when it was written by Bankimchand Chattopadhyay, in 1876, it was published in 1882, so where does century come now and where’s 7th September? They made a mistake, the politicians, political gimmick.
Furthermore even a Muslim living in Saudi Arabia, he cannot bow down to his country Saudi Arabia. Even a Muslim living in Pakistan cannot bow down to Pakistan, it is Shirk. So to say that the Indian Muslims are not patriotic…. It is our religion, our Creator, our God who has made this country is far superior. So we love this country, when required for the truth we are willing to die for this country, but we will not bow down to anyone but Almighty God.
Dr. Mohammad Naik: We would prefer questions from Non Muslims first because we have a limited time, I think it would be fair to the occasion. People who’d like to ask questions on the slip can kindly write on the slips and pass it on down the aisle.. yeah any other question with any sister there. A Non Muslim sister? Yes….
Questioner: As Salaamu Alaikum and good evening to everyone present here. My name is Preeti Sethi. I would like to ask you Sir, as in your talk you have said that Osama bin Laden.. we cant consider him as terrorist as it is said in BBC and CNN Channels but at the same time we get the same information about the bomb blast and the count which we get about the Bomb blast on the same channels. So whether it have to be believed or no? Thank You Sir.
Dr. Zakir Naik: The sister has asked a very good question, very relevant question… I said that when we talk about Osama bin Laden, that we get the information of BBC that he is a terrorist, we don’t have to believe. But when we get the count of the Bomb blast, do we have to believe? That’s what I said, the people controlling… that doesn’t mean all the news of BBC is wrong, the news in which they make a hero into a villain, in which they’ll benefit.. you have to check up. So here when we see that these normally bomb blasts figures that you get, most of them that you find will be some what similar, if it’s a government channel of the country in which the bomb blast has taken place, the figure will normally be low. Why? Because the government wants to show that less people have been killed. Like the police commissioner wrote to me 187 people killed, newspapers writes 207, I don’t know who’s right, I’m not saying that Commissioner A.N. Roy is lying, I’m not saying that, please don’t get me wrong. So here we have to realize whenever you get information we have to see the proof, when we see the proof about Osama bin Laden even on the channel it is mentioned Prime suspect… sister. Prime suspect.. Prime suspect.. do you know? If you go to the website of the U.S.Department of Justice.. Info Please, there it gives a list of the terrorist organizations, terrorist organization, 43… 60% are Muslim.. can you guess which is the most popular terrorist organization? Can you guess? Muslim terrorist organization? Can you guess?
Questioner: No sorry
Dr. Zakir Naik: Which is the most popular Muslim terrorist organization?
Audience: Al Qaeda
Dr. Zakir Naik: Al Qaeda… you don’t get a prize for that.. very easy.. Al Qaeda. According to the U.S. Department, how many attacks? How many attacks? ULFA… 749 attacks… Al Qaeda… only 28… out of that.. 26 alleged… two Al Qaeda claimed they did it. According to the site of U. S. Department of Justice… Al Qaeda claims.. all alleged..not a single proved. Even on the official site of U. S. Department of Justice not a single attack of Al Qaeda has been proved… I’m not here to support Al Qaeda. You know when Yvonne Ridley went to Afghanistan.. she was arrested by the Talibans, she comes back and she’s asked the question what are your views about Al Qaeda? She replies, “I doubt whether Al Qaeda exists”.
So sister what I’m trying to tell you that when we get the information, if you are a man of the media or a person of the media you can realize and you know that this information mostly will be correct, this has to be checked up. So what we have to realize that it is suspect, prime suspect… prime suspect. Even on CNN and BBC, even though they say it’s a prime suspect they are treating him as though he is a culprit. Can you go and kill thousands of Afghans only because of Prime suspect? Not even proved. So but natural sister, when we hear the news we have to realize that who controls the news? What is their agenda behind? And then we have to be careful what news you take and what you quote. Hope that answers the question sister.
Dr. Mohammad Naik: A Non Muslim brother?
Questioner: The question has been put forward by my Non Muslim friend.
Dr. Mohammad Naik: Ok, we’ll allow that.
Questioner: Ok, As Salaamu Alaikum Sir, myself Saif, and I’m a management student. The question is that do you think that Muslim feel unsecurity and that’s why can we say that terrorism is it outcome? Thank you sir, your comment please.
Dr. Zakir Naik: The brother asked the question that do Muslims feel insecured and that’s the reason terrorists acts are done. I told in my talk the main root cause of terrorism is injustice, its not insecurity, insecurity may be part of it. But the main cause is injustice… injustice and something wrong done to group of people. If you read an article that came yesterday on Sunday MidDay on the eve of the 9/11, one of the very famous persons name is William, he writes and he gives a advice that the root cause is injustice and wrong done to a community. And he agrees with the Bombay authorities that there are possibilities that Kashmiri’s may have done bomb blast in Bombay, but he says, what is the cause? According to him the Kashmiri’s are un-militant people. They are peace loving people.. so what has forced them to fight. And he gives his view, it is because of democracy which is forged.. he says that.. not me…aa.. its not my comments. Person who’s an expert and he gives advice to people in the world. He says that the democracy is forged, it is manipulated. That’s the reason what we find that they are fighting. Same in Palestine, they are fighting because their rights are taken away. So the main cause of terrorism is injustice done to a group or any wrong done, so to get their rights back this gives rise to a fight, to a retaliation which is called terrorism by people who are opposing it. Those who agree with it, they call good. For example, Bhagat Singh, he fought for the freedom of the country, by the Britishers he was called as Terrorist, we call him freedom fighter. So depending upon what is the background.. Therefore before you give a label of terrorist… therefore I said terrorism has got different meanings. Has got different definitions. It changes because of Geographical definition, it changes because of history, so the same person who’s called a terrorist by the British Government we Indians call them as freedom fighter. So like that we have to find out the main cause is injustice done to a group of people.
Dr. Mohammad Naik: I’ll ask a question from Non Muslim brother on the slip. Its Christopher Lobo, asks, how can you prove that was 9/11 was an inside job.
Dr. Zakir Naik: Brother Lobo has asked that how can I prove 9/11 was an inside job.. I’ve got the proofs I can repeat the proof, it has been proven by other people. Just a few days back there was an article that came in the newspaper, that
“75 Professors of US they say, they believe that 9/11 was an inside job.”
And in the article it was mentioned, it came in Times of India, I think on the 7th of September, it says that 75 Professors and Scientists belonging to different universities from different parts of U.S they believe that 9/11 was inside job and they say that there were some politicians in White House who have engineered the destructions of the twin towers. And they say the main reason was so that they could attack and they could have control of the oil rich countries... open secret.. I told you.
One of the professors by the name of Steven Jones, he says that we do not believe that 19 highjackers and few men in the cave in Afghanistan could have done such a professional job… alone.. they could not have done it. We don’t believe and by God we are going to come to the truth and we are going to expose. We don’t believe in the theory of the government. They don’t believe in the theory of the government. And he further goes on to say that we as being professors and scientists we know that the steel beam of the twin tower they couldn’t have melted at the temperature at which the jet fuel was there. And there were systematic bomb explosions which caused this to come down, otherwise it cannot come down. There are many tapes, there are many books written against it. I happened to watch many of them, I even happened to watch the video recording of this Professor Steven Jones. And yesterdays paper, we get another news, three days… later Professor Steven Jones sent on a paid leave. Imagine… paid leave.
There are many tapes if you happened to watch one of the tapes by the name of Loose Change 9/11, it was done by a young American of 21 years old. He makes a one hour documentary, there are many, many are there. This 9/11 documentary it has collected clips from the various… of CNN, of Fox Channel.. all the news clipping, he took interviews etc and made a one hour documentary and then he says that people who saw the airplane they said, it cannot be a passenger carrier, it looked like a military place, it didn’t have any windows. And when he shows the shooting, when it comes close to the tower, there is another firing done from the wings, which hits the twin tower before the plane. Then further he goes on to prove, he says that he had statements of the management, the construction company which had constructed the twin tower, they said, its impossible, the twin tower made to withstand storm, to withstand tornado, this place cannot knock it down and it cannot come down, because the fuel burns at 1000 degrees temperature, this even for 2000 degree temperature for hours nothing will happen to it. Ten days later he changes his statement and said, No it’s possible, jet fuel can cause damage to the beams. Another professor who gave the statement, he didn’t withdraw his statement back, so he was sacked.
Furthermore what they did, that in the documentary they show that when the twin tower came down like how you willfully get down any building and he gave statistics that many buildings in New York, tall sky scrapers, 40 floor, 60 floor, they caught fire for many hours but none of them came down, it is the first building in the history of USA, it has come down that way. And he showed photograph that when building is deliberately brought down how do they get down by explosion, in the same way it came down. There were systematic bomb blast and people who went to rescue whether it be the fireman, they were interviewed, they said that we were thinking that someone up was pressing the bomb button and the bombs were going off… boom..boom…boom. so how the twin tower come down, they have given proof.
Furthermore they say that all the proofs given by the government they are analyzed. They said 19 highjackers, some of them they were trained as flying of the plane. They went to the university and they interviewed their professors. Do you think that this person can do such an act? Impossible, the way the plane took a turn… and I have personally spoken to senior pilots who have flown big Boeings and air buses for several years they said, it’s impossible to take such a turn and imagine just a new person of few hundred of hours take a turn.. what the experts say? It has to be a military plane.
Furthermore, information given by the government, you know phone calls were there, phone calls. Phone calls said that they said that the passengers in the plane they claimed that they were highjacked. One of the phone calls was by a flight attendant, she says that … buildings, water…my God…my god.. she’s being flying for 12 years.. hasn’t she seen buildings in New York? Another person he says, mom.. this is Mark Bingham.. Mom can you hear me? We have been hijacked, do you believe? The question to be asked.. if I’m going to speak to my Mom.. I will say Zakir… I will not say I’m Zakir Naik speaking. He said that I’m Mark Bingham.. Mom I’m Mark Bingham. If Mark has to speak to the Mom, he will say I’m Mark, he’ll not say I’m Mark Bingham. He gave systematic proofs, do you speak to your mother telling your surname? So all the proofs all the phones were tapped down and then he did a survey that can the mobile phone work at 32,000 feet? When a survey was done, at 4000 feet the chances of mobile working is .4% at 8000 feet, it is .1 %. At 32,000 feet it is .006%, .006. There is no chance and the documentary says that today USA is spending millions of dollars to reach mobile at that height, in 2001 they did it.
Then there are many documentaries, then the documentary says that there are black boxes. Every plane has got two black boxes and the black box can withstand a temperature of 3000 degree centigrade for several hours and in just 1000 or 2000 degrees all the black boxes have been destroyed. He goes on systematically. And immediately after a couple of weeks Osama bin Laden, he gives an interview on the Ummah Magazine. And he says that I’m a Muslim I will not lie, according to me killing innocent woman is prohibited, it is wrong. Killing innocent children is wrong. Killing any innocent human being is wrong. And Islam condemns it. Osama bin Laden giving an interview and saying that. Couple of days back you get a video clipping from Al Jazeera, Osama bin Laden training 9/11. Because 75 professors say it’s an inside job, now they manipulate and after 5 years they are showing on the television… why? So here we realize everything, it was inside job and these 75 professors they have promised, by God we will come to the bottom of it.
Regarding the second attack on the Pentagon. At Pentagon when the airplane crashed, there was no scrapping on the grass, nothing, only a hole in the Pentagon and the hole was only equal to the body of the place and we see a crater and they showed on the television, but when the wings went, the wings weren’t seen outside, neither were the window panes damaged of the Pentagon. If a plane body goes in and the wings stays out either the wing will remain outside or the window pane will damage, the building was intact. So how could only in a circumference of a body of a plane, how can the wings go as well as the tail? Means it’s fabricated. The people who said that, you know the plane went just forty feet above my head, today science tells us that if a Boeing is flying at 40 feet above your head, that car will fly away. And an interview was taken of ex military person, he said it sounded like a missile. It had to be a missile. The missile will make that hole. And there was no debris, there was debris only little bit debris, there was no part of the plane found there. There was only a small engine of a fighter plane found there. Even in the other place they only find a crater. Time doesn’t permit me.. the amount of ample of evidence given there… even a fool will know that this was an inside job. But it doesn’t convince George Bush and what they say, the reason is only to attack Afghanistan, Iraq and then Iran. They’re even predicting that Iran is going to be attacked. They want to have the control of the oil rich countries.
So this terrorist attack is for what? One is injustice, second is for money, if for power. And when the politicians find that he’s going to loose the vote, he creates a fear psychosis, ok you better elect me otherwise the Muslims will get you and they are elected. Same thing in Gujarat. A fear psychosis was created, if you don’t elect us the Muslims will kill you and the government came back in power. So what we realize that this was nothing but an inside job. And there are several tapes, several VCD’s available 9/11, Loose Change, then.. Fahrenheit… many… and if you see all this it is a blatant open secret that this attack on the twin towers were done by George Bush himself.
Dr. Mohammad Naik: The last question of the day.
Questioner: Sir my question is very very… very much basic… to you… I believe that… as you said terrorism is a fight against injustice.. right? I also believe terrorism is somehow a fight against the government of… by a common people. Kisi Insaan Ke Saath Agar Anyaay Hota Hai Tabhi Who Jaake Mazhab Ke Naam Pe Log Ikhatta Karta Hai Aur Phir.. [Translation: Only when a person suffers injustice then he gathers people in the name of religion…] you know he tries to fight against whatever has happened to him.
But what I believe is Ek Insaan…. Ek normal person, you know if somebody.. Hum Mein Se Agar Koi Gujarat Mein Hota Toh Shaayad Hum Bhi Wahi Karte Jo Unhone Kiya… Matlab Aur Aap Kya Karsakte Hai?… Police Pe Aapko Bharosa Nahi Hai.. Judicial System Dus Saal Laga Degi.. Toh Ek Normal Insaan Ke Paas..Kaunsa Option Bacchta Hai Agar Uske Saath Burai Ho To.
[Translation: A person.. a normal person… you know if somebody…. If anyone of us would have been in Gujarat then we would have also done the same what they have done… I mean what else could you do? You cant trust the Police… the Judicial system will take 10 years. So if a normal person is wronged then what is the option left with him?]
What would your advice be to a normal man like me, if something like this happens to me..
Dr. Zakir Naik: Brother…
Questioner: What should we do?
Dr. Zakir Naik: I agree with you. What you are saying is that if that would have happened with you and me, when we see our family members being killed in front of us. Our mothers, and our sisters being raped, our houses being looted.. what will you do? And I agree… that what they do the same thing. A normal human being will do that, that’s normal, unless you have so much faith in Almighty God. I do agree with you 99% human beings.. unless he’s wearing bangles. Kalai Pe Chudiyan Pehni Hai To Alag Baat Hai… [Translation: It’s a different case if he’s wearing Bangles] otherwise this is a normal reaction. Unless a person has faith in Almighty God. Even I would want to do the same… if I did not know my Qur’an… if I did not know from the Qur’an it is wrong. Because if I killed a innocent human being, I’m behaving like the same person who’s caused problem and injustice to me. Just because someone does injustice to me, it does not justify me to kill other innocent human being. Just because somebody has robbed me I can’t go and rob a third person. If I catch the person responsible and book him and punish him, that’s a different case. But I cannot kill any innocent human being. Based on the logic of the Qur’an that it prohibits you from killing any innocent human beings, I because I know the Qur’an will not retaliate in that way. I will try and get evidence. I will try and convince the government. If he goes scott free… what I say? That all those people responsible for these terrorist acts whether done in Gujarat, in Bombay riots, whether the politicians, whether the police, whether people who have killed, whether the people who did the bomb blast, even if they go scott free in this world, on the day of Judgement God will surely punish them. So we as Muslims believe, as it’s mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Ale Imran, Chapter 3, Verse No. 185, that
“Kullu Nafsin Dhā'iqatul-Mawt”
“Every soul shall have a taste of death but the final recompense is on the day of Judgment”
Because we believe this life is the test for the hereafter, we leave it, if we cannot do something here, we leave it for Almighty God to do justice and Insha Allah he’ll be punished in the hereafter. If we catch Hitler today, what punishment can you give him? 6 million people incinerated what punishment can you give him? You can kill him once. What about the remaining five million, nine lakhs, ninty nine thousand, nine ninty nine people?
Qur’an says in Surah Nisa, Chapter No. 4, Vese No. 56, that those who reject our signs we shall put them in the hell fire and ass often as their skins are roasted we shall give them fresh skin so that they shall feel the pain.
Today science tells us that there are pain receptors, so God tells that on the day of Judgment if the skins are roasted we shall give them fresh skin so that they shall feel the pain. If God wants to incinerate Hitler 6 million times, he can do it, we cant do it here.
So therefore we leave it to the main justice.. main justice to God.
Dr. Mohammad Naik: We thank you all for being present here. We would have love to put forward all your questions, Dr. Zakir would have not minded. There were questions like Islam was spread at the point of the sword… Jihad and Terrorism and many others….InshaAllah at a future date we would get to hear more from Dr. Zakir… JazakAllah Khairan.
We thank Allah (swt) for making this programme possible for all of us present here today. And we thank all our guest to have heard the programme with so much interest and enthusiasm. Thank you very much and I would lastly like to thank all the technical people and the people who have been recording this programme for many many millions more to hear it all over the world.
Thank you. JazakAllah Khairan. Assalaamu Alaikum.